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Hi, thinking of you. Think I have also reached the end of the honeymoon period with my ds recently, although our issues have been more to do with school and do not sound so significant as yours. Sorry if you have already tried this, but have your social workers suggested any reading on attachment, e.g. Dan Hughes - this might help with strategies for the control and aggression issues. Not really able to offer much in the way of suggestions as I am also (hopefully) awaiting referral for some support services and starting to trawl the books myself. Just wanted you to know you're not alone!!

you are certainly not alone. We are 4 months in and have definately finished the honeymoon period! We too certainly question every day if we are good enough, did we say the right thing, react the wrong way etc etc as behaviour seems to have no relation or improvement what ever we do. Sorry, no advice just wanted to reassure you that this must be very commonplace and a normal stage, we are also awaiting some therepy for our children. best of luck.

Hi, Sorry it's so hard for you at the moment.I remember reading somewhere when we were going through this in a very extreme way with our son, that children who have been separated from birth parents and usually foster parents too, often feel completely unlovable at their core. So in a way this type of behaviour is their protection from what they feel is inevitable - your rejection of them at some point. So they keep pushing and pushing to try to force the inevitable - to get it over with. They just can't trust us to be what we say we are - their past experience just doesn't support the idea that permanence is a possibilty.Whilst there can be many contributing factors to this behaviour, some physical as well as emotional, reading about the above helped me alot to cope. I could relate to it and it made me less angry at the behaviour. We have come to terms now, that it is a very long journey and only the consistency of our care and nurturing over time, will ultimately help him to relax and accept that we are going to be there for him forever.He is still pretty controlling and has outbursts daily but they are generally much less violent, more verbal now and more short lived. He will often take himself off to calm down now. Infact lately he's been more likely to end up crying when he's not got his own way, and he will sometimes let me comfort him even though he's supposedly cross with me, which is good progress I think. We have consequences for the more extreme behaviour ( I have ten minutes special time with each of our children every day, where they get to choose what we do - any violence or abuse means they lose a minute of that special time.) As garden suggested, I do try to anticipate what things might trigger an outburst so that I can control these in advance, you get better at this over time.Theraplay have some good techniques for dealing with the controlling behaviour. You play games where you control the way the game is played, eg Throw the ball when I say go. It's a good way for them to be able to relinquish control without compromising their perceived safety. They also have some lovely nurturing activities to help with the attachment. You could ask your social worker whether they can provide this although I would check out the credentials of the person delivering the therapy as I think the quality can vary enormously. If you are interested PM me and I can give you more info.Bit tired now so have to go, I hope you find a way forward.Take careL&P xxP.S - Only a year or so ago I can remember I was so stressed with it all that I would spend whole mornings in tears. That's quite rare now so there is hope but as others have said you will need advice and support.

hiThe others have given some really great support and advice. Leekandpotato and the theraplay game is a great one.I have to say that what Garden says about adopters not being prepared enough for after the child is placed (not a reflection on you at all but "the system") has to change. It is not fair to place so many demands on a new family, offer little in the way of support, with training that leads you to believe that things will either be fine with a few glitches early on and if it isn't it MUST be your fault. Terrible and inexcusable to my mind actually. Placing SWs do know better these days- and if they don't THEY SHOULD DO imo.Anyway- small "p" politics to one side! Here is what I think might help you.One of the books that has helped me most and been most practical at dealing with the controlling and lairy child is "The explosive Child" By Dr Ross Greene.It is not written primarily for adopters but includes ref to children who have had less than ideal starts in life. It gives a lot of practical down to earth (easier read) stuff on dealing with chronically inflexible children by choosing battles carefully. In reality I use a mixture of approaches.I am hoping that you will know that children's very brain wiring is altered by their early trauma. This has an enormous impact on them, socially, psychologically, biologically and on their physical development. The brain wiring can be repaired but it can take a very very long time. I am nearly 7 yrs in and my childrens greatest fear remains starvation, they had 2 yrs good FC before us. It just illustrates what I mean about it effecting their brain wiring when I tell you that their obsessions over food, stealing food etc remain after all this time. I dont think it is down to our parenting of them that has done this. I do wish earlier on we had the support and knowledge that these boards have given us though because we would have done things so differently.When my daughter gladrags is going through a wobblies every few hours phase, I have found a "Lock down" mode most helpful. This is hard work for me as it is against a lot of my natural parenting style but it means that gladrags choices are nil. All the decisions about breakfast, getting washed and dressed are made (by us)and then she feels safest, being cross for the first little while and starts to relax.Sensory things do make a big difference. Get some soothing pillow spray, bubble bath (baby stuff) and massage cream and use it. It will help with the bonding and help to calm the children. Your BC might like it too!Visual timetables help. who is doing what and when and giving structure. Free Play time is actually one of the hardest things for a chronically inflexible child to cope with. Mine really struggle with it and so we still use keeping them as busy and involved as possible, with supervision to keep them out of bother.I have a Bd who is now 1yr old. because of this, my older 2 have friday eves with my parents and so we can have bonding time alone with our BD. This helps mine have someone outside of the immediate family to feel like they are valued beyond home. Lastly, look after yourselves. Can you go out for a meal or even a drink once a month? Mr dimps and I cant always manage it so we have some time with a bottle and a DVD and some candles when the children have gone to bed. Sometimes I even manage to stay awake!Get yourself booked on an evening class (languages, salsa dancing, pottery- anything not child related!) I also find that an evening out with my girlie friends helps.The reason the look after yourselves bit is so important is looking after "children who hurt" does something to the very core of your being over time and can lead to secondary trauma. By looking after yourselves you minimise. When things are getting too much in the day- step out into the garden and sniff the flowers. make a cuppa and sit down with some music on. You might even find the children are so surprised they copy you and stop being so tricky!Sending you a BIG hug.

And maybe you need to be prepared for much slower progress than you are hoping for.For various reasons I was very insecure at the start of my current relationship and needed a lot of reassurance (though not at the level you describe). Only looking back after a year or so I realised how this had gradually decreased by dh's steady reassurance - not just in words but also in his actions and attitude.Saying something once doesn't help, you may have to repeat it, and show it in different ways, for months or years or more before the child really believes and trusts it deep down.All the best, K.

soinloveYou have done nothing 'wrong'. It sounds like you are doing all of the 'right' things. Your children have been damaged by other adults and you are trying to find a way of living with that and coping with it.It is incredibly hard work and very wearing. Us adoptive parents are only human and we won't always get it right.IMO consistency on your part is the key and time will help the children towards healing.Professional input may be needed too. We felt from very early on in placement that our 6 year old needed professional help. Her difficulties were way beyond our scope and capabilites. 7 months into placement she became very disturbed and finally SSs agred to refer her for therapy which has helped her and us enormously.Expectations is a huge factor too. Our two have just had a very settled whole month , but they are wobbling again now. We cope with that by doing two things. We lower our expectations of them to the level that they can manage, this saves an awful lot of frustration and irritation on our part.We also use Dimples 'lock down' scheme. We make all the decisions, we stop all extra curricular activities and we keep them home doing quiet things as much as possible. Personally I think my children have done a lot of their healing during these times of lockdown. They respond to it very very well. Particulary our dd who has a tendency towards controlling behaviour.Our children have been with us for 18 months and it has got significantly easier to parent them, but I think a great deal of that is because we have changed our attitudes and expectations.Don't struggle along alone. Keep posting here. These boards and the advice I received here probably saved our placement from disrupting.

When ours came 3 yrs ago, ED was terribly controlling. I tried battling with her, but as Garden says, she had much more staying power than me.A big one for us for a long time was teeth cleaning. She was adamant she wanted meto clean her teeth, and I was adamant that she should do it. One day, a lightbulb moment hit me - just offer to do it for her without waiting for her to ask. Honestly, so simple, but made such a difference. I still mostly do her teeth. But, so what? (This is one of my buttons, - I really feel like she's controlling me when she asks for help for something that i know she can do. I know that she's feeling vulnerable, worried etc etc but that's how i feel,so i prempt it by asking her if she can manage to do something or does she need help. And then we're both fine.I guess what I'm saying is that in changing my ways (which is diffiult) we achieve much more harmony, and her anxieties/'controllingness' are reduced.I give choices a or b. i think this allows her limited control, which for her is better than the lock down that Dimples uses (which doesn't work for us).I don't know how old your children are, but if you can think as them as much younger, it can really help. BW LMC

Firstly thank you everyone for your kind support and advice.We agree so much with the comments about the SW advice and "training" provided for prospective adopters. Very poor and at times extremely misleading. We have felt very let-down by them recently. We have tried the lock down approach but no joy. As mentioned in your kind replies, the wee ones are so much more determined. We are getting better at pre-empting potential conflict and we do appreciate that at times it is our own bloody mindedness that is the issue. This is definately an area which could have been suggested pre-placement. We have purchased several books recently reading "the trouble with Alex" at moment, which is very helpful. I have to be honest our oldest isn't quite as bad but certain similarities. We struggle sometimes with understanding when our oldest is being controlling or just being a typical 6 year old. Don't know if we are just being over-sensitive, don't really want to be too hard on usual 6 year old behaviour. This site is a god-send and we will struggle on regardless, we are here for the long haul. We know that we often get it wrong but then sometimes we get it right. I don't know how pre-internet/mobile phone adopters coped?Regards to all x x