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I'm not even going to try to answer your questions. The thing is when you adopt you have to accept that there will be uncertainties. You may have a child with fewer issues - I have one just like that. At the moment he appears to be quite straightforward. But he's about to hit his teens and who knows what that will bring. The key for him, I think, was that he was removed at birth, had one secure placement and was home at 5 months. Birth mum fairly well behaved during pregnancy. But also he had me all to himself for close to 3 years - he didn't have to share me and we were able to build the attachment. I also have two others - both considered easy to place babies. One was dx asd a few months ago, my other with ADHD at 6 and asd and dyslexia today.These are the realities of modern day adoption. No-one is going to be able to give you the assurances you're looking for. You're either prepared to take a chance and risk the outcome or not.My kids are amazing. They struggle and life can be difficult. Would I adopt with a birth child knowing what I know now? No. Do I regret any of it? No of course not. They're my children and I adore them all.

Good reply from Donatella.It's a risk, to be sure.I do feel conflicted, either on the boards or with people I meet occasionally who want to adopt (with or without birth children). We did it, so why should I say 'don't do it'? More anon....

Hi TreefloI have PM'd you about the coffee morning following your message - come along tomorrow and see if anyone can help you with the answers to your questions - I am afraid i cant - we are awaiting our link meeting but have no birth children so these will be our first and for us adoption was our first choice! Buttercup x

Thank you Donatella & Larsti for your honest, good responses... I know I cannot have assurances. I'm not sure what I am trying to find out but I suppose am trying to get a picture of the range of difficulties (and rewards) other have gone through... Thank you

I've had a longish meeting with a psychiatrist today re one of mine. We talked about lots of stuff. I was lucky. He was willing to give my child what we both considered to be the most useful - for him - diagnosis. But ultimately it could have been one of many and that's because of birth family history. And my children's histories are pretty much the norm for a lot of children who come through the care system these days. Alcohol, drugs, violence but underpinning this quite often are a range of undiagnosed mental health problems. They're not dysfunctional because they're addicts. They're addicts because they're self medicating because of something else. Adhd. Fas. Asd. By removing a child you can make a difference but it's a long and difficult road to get profs to recognise this. This psych did. Only you can decide whether you're prepared to put your family through this.

have PMd you

Okay, I'm back. More wisdom from my cyber friend Donatella We have 3 BCs too treeflo and I think some people did wonder why we wanted to adopt. We just did! Not a decision taken lightly of course but we had talked about the possibility of adoption for years (between BC 2 and 3 for example).We don't regret adopting and of course we love our son. BUT despite being very well informed and homestudy taking a very long time due to bereavements and a house move (therefore we had plenty of time to learn more about adoption and remained committed to adoption throughout homestudy) we really were quite naive.We explicitly said that we would not consider a child with special needs over and above the emotional needs which we knew an adopted child would have.For this reason we did not proceed with a VA when they explained that they would only place an older child or special needs child with us (ie a hard to place child)At the time our youngest birth child was about 5 I think. So we were looking at a 3 year gap.In the event homestudy took so long our BD was 9 and AS 4 1/2 at placement. Our son was developmentally delayed. We thought, of course he is, he's been neglected (amongst other reasons). Its only more recently we realised that a 'delay' does not necessarily mean that the child will 'catch up'. He may have permanent learning difficulties.Our son may have a foetal alcohol spectrum disorder. We now have an appt to see the top specialist in the country, on the NHS. I other words it is very likely that he does have FASD, other causes of his difficulties being ruled out. On the other hand as paed said we may never know why he is like he is.He also has autistic traits (I'm not the ony person who suspects this) and ADHD type behaviour (ditto) that might be the FASD.Mainstream school is not an option for him and so currently he is home educated.We are Christians and had years to pray about adoption. We very much believe that our son was the perfect match for our family (despite everything) I know you don't have to have a faith to have a sense of a child being 'right' but that is the basis of everything for us. We believe that God has entrusted us with our son and also we believe that God has a sense of humour!Lastl, our birth daughter does suffer. Its on that score that I don't feel able to recommend adoption. I am especially concerned when I hear of a couple with an only child adopting as I think that must be very hard for the birth child. Several birth children can support each other (after our deaths as well) and family life is less intense I would imagine.Despite everything, our BD is very protective of AS. When she heard that another boy had punched him in the stomach, she said she was going to go round and knock his block off.Other days she wants to knock her brother's block off!!HTHLarsti

Meant to say the reason for all the info was that we didn't realise quite what we were 'taking on'. I don't think SWs necessarily always withhold information (although we know we were not given the full facts about one incident mentioned in passing on the paperwork and subsequently found in local paper on the Internet!) But I think the culture is that they can minimise problems for fear of child not getting a family. That is my impression anyway.So you don't necessarily have all the info in order to make your decision. Looking back at our son's paperwork, we should have realised, for example that he had most probably seen violence ans sexual activity even if he wasn't directly involved. This must be the case for many children adopted from care.

Hi- similar story here- we have 3 bc- 2 living at home with us- youngest was 6 when our baby lo was placed last summer- our journey has been complex but at the moment our lo is presenting as neurotypical! Sociable and developing well- but!!!! Lo is very very different- has more intense needs and these come first- once met she is proper straightforward indeed and an utter joy. We have so far been lucky - the journey at first was not and its been intense work- we have not encountered school issues as lo is not yet 2! Would I do it again with bc- not sure would I take that chance again- we have been incredibly fortunate to have been matched with our child- and I feel like larsti that she is ours for a reason. We love her! Simple as that! I could not have been told though- we were invincible and our ac would be ours and special! Ha! Listen well to Donna- please - she speaks volumes of truth and from a place of utter experience.Ha. We were even told pre panel our lo may have special needs- we were warned! We could not think straight and thought we could manage it all based on our experiences with our bc. No way is this a good comparison- the differences are immense.Think long and hard about meeting the needs of lo before your bc.Xx

Have pm's you

I have thought about this thread and Mumlous for quite a long time. Our LO was placed 18 months ago aged 3 - she's now 5. We have a birth daughter aged 10.As a prospective adopter I would not have considered that we wouldn't be able to cope. I had a good job, was calm, sensible and patient. DH and I had raised another child, we both had experience of working with children and of ASD.We went to matching panel to adopt a little girl who was "meeting all milestones" and had no difficulties.I'm now a mum of 2, desperately trying to hold on to a good job, on anti-depressants, who has learnt to swear and has so little patience it's untrue.Our beautiful BD has scars, dreads going to school, rarely smiles, struggles with friendships, is struggling at school and is being seen at CAMHS in her own right for suspected depression - all in just 18 months.Some questions for you to consider:- Could you accept a LO hurting your BC? How much could your BC take before hitting back? This is not sibling rivalry but something much deeper seated and BD is still being hurt 18 months in and has never retaliated. Could your BC accept not being able to do something / have something that they've always done? Christmas at grannies with all the family for example or birthday sleepovers?

Are your BC old enough / mature enough not to have ANY of your attention during LOs waking hours? How would your BC manage the comments from their peers when LO smears poo all over the school toilets or wets themselves when sitting on the friends knee? How would your BC react when the family pet has to be taken away as LO is not safe to be around animals (and yes we were told she was fine with animals). How would you feel when your close family reject the previously good relationship they had with your BC because BC are sticking up for LO and the family don't understand the need for different parenting skills? How would your BC react waking to find their bedroom covered in green ink or their precious toys broken?It's so hard and I would never have listened to any of these comments thinking that our experience would be different.I would honestly advise anyone with BC to love and cherish them unreservedly and not to consider adoption. I may think differently in 5 / 10 years time ........................MMx

Putting a different side to the story....There are some successes! Ours is one. It was really challenging, we had some awful times but our AD did change, and we are a happy balanced family and our BS is definitely better for having our AD in his life. They play well, he is proud of her, she had never smeared poo or weed on anyone - although she was reported to have done both these things at the FCs. She drew on the walls once, but at the age of 4 when I made her scrub the walls for 2 hours, she never did it again.I know there are successes. We are one family and I know of others. I can't help but feel that the people with the bigger on-going challenges populate these boards more than people who don't have ongoing challenges - which is why we don't hear from them as much.I am pleased to say that I didn't read these boards before we had our LO placed. If I had have read them we probably wouldn't have proceeded and our lives would not be as rich as they are now with the addition of our AD in our family.Age gap 3 years 5 months. And she was a 'hard to place' child due to serious behavioural challenges resulting from severe neglect and abuse and had been bounced around the FC system as a result of these. Once in a firm but loving home, she did adapt, did calm down and is now progressing beautifully.I know there are some awful stories and realities out there but there are also some great success stories of families completed, lives saved and happy ever after.We don't know what the future holds - but right now 18 months in - we are a strong family unit, the future looks bright and we are pleased that we adopted our 4 year old D when our BS was 7.5.I'm not saying it wasn't hard. it has been REALLY hard. But OH SO WORTH IT!My heart goes out to all for whom it hasn't worked out as you hoped. I really feel for you. But it is not everyone's experience.I would hate to see these boards that do so much good and offer so much support, actually start to put people off before they start out. The system definitely needs to provide more support to Adoptive families, possibly especially those with BC. In my experience from what I was told, we weren't at the top of any SW's list to place an 'easy to place child' as the statistics apparently show that placements into families where there is a BC disrupt more frequently. Hence we get the harder to place children - which put more stress on delicate situations and therefore do disrupt more frequently. A self-fulfilling prophecy! We waited and waited and only adopted when the right child came along for us, one which we felt sure we could manage and change. For us it worked. It can and does work for others too.Brimble x

I don't have a birth child but I did adopt and then adopt again. I know the first child ( now 15) begged for a brother and cares about the younger one, ( both would defend the other from any outside attack or comment) but he has also suffered from ds2 hitting him and being cheeky/ unknowingly nasty to him. And getting less of my time which he still craves, probably because he was only adopted at age ten. They are like chalk and cheese personality wise, ds1 finds it hard when folks at school make remarks about ds2 being odd and they both and find it hard to understand each other, so it's not an easy relationship, despite both haing wanted a brother.I love them both dearly but it has only worked because ds2 is such a caring person who looked after his own younger birth siblings before they came into care, and still feels responsible for them and his adoptive brother.Would I have done it if I had known the outcome, not sure, and we have been lucky because neither has school issues and neither has special needs ( if you discount dyspraxia) our family feels complete and we love them both. I think if you are determined to do it, you will no matter what anyone says, we had no option but to adopt and wouldn't have, had we had a birth child. For us it was the only way to have a family. Best wishes as you think about the issues. In your shoes I would wait till birth kids are grown up but that's just me, and I can't bring myself to discourage adopters because, for those who feel they can do it, the need for places for kids is very high.

brimble's post reminded me that I meant to say that if doing it again I would wait till we found the child who felt right for our family, and not the one we felt obliged to take because la had done the home study, etc. we love him dearly now but it could have been a bit easier on the family dynamics.

No-one is trying to put anyone off brimble. Op asked for real life stories and that's what we gave.For the record I think we are a success story. My kids have the dxs they need in order to get the support they need. My children are amazing and resilient little people who've overcome a huge amount. Their difficulties really only became apparent once they started school. Until then they seemed quite 'normal'. The point is that it's a chance you have to take. Everything may be hunky dory. But it may not. And if you are prepared for that, then fine. It's a gamble. But once these children are home then you, as the adult, has a responsibility to make it work.

As has been said, a lot of posters on here do have to cope with many difficulties and most likely the people who don't have problems wouldn't need to come here. Our story..Our birth children were 12 & 14 when our niece came to live with us at 3 days old. We fostered for a year until the courts agreed the plans to adopt. It took us a couple of months to get used to having a newborn in the house and the children did get irritated at times but once we settled into a decent routine things improved greatly. We made a conscious effort to make time for our bc and keep up our family traditions etc.Our daughter is now 12 and has not had any adoption related problems, she is aware of why/how she came to be adopted as we were given a fantastic life story book to help us explain things to her. We have been reading it since she was old enough to sit and look at the photos. She has needed a different style of parenting due to her strong character and problems have been mostly due to outside factors eg peer pressure. She benefits from older parents who are more relaxed as we have been through the teenage years with our BC.The reason I still come to these boards is to learn how adopters feel about birth family- and I have a clear idea of how they think! I have battled all these years for contact with our daughters older siblings who have been adopted by strangers. She has never lived with them but does "own" them as her brothers and sisters. The adopters have followed ss guidelines and therefore have kept contact to a minimum. However, without going into detail, this has now changed and we have direct contact.Our daughter has enriched all our lives. She has given much joy to our extended family. I feel that she is secure in the knowledge that she is our daughter but has the extra bonus of other other siblings outside our home. After her first face to face contact with her siblings she made a poster of her family with me and OH at the head, then the 2 birth children, then her followed by her other siblings in age order. So in her eyes, one big family even though they all live in different places.exactly how I'd hoped it would be!

When you first become a parent - whether by adoption or birth - you have no idea what you're getting into! Try to think back to how you made that decision and how that has played out. Is parenting like you imagined it would be? What have been the disappointments and surprises?Obviously you should consider your birth child but ultimately whether or not you should adopt depends entirely on what you want to do.We have two adopted boys aged eight and seven and a birth child who's nineteen months. Having the baby was a risk, but I wanted him very much and I am so happy!The older two have a lot of problems. They can be very destructive and aggressive. They certainly do have an impact on the baby and make his life more complicated than it would have been otherwise. But all siblings do that! You cannot predict what a sibling will do to your birth child in advance.I remember once calling my dad in tears and saying that it was a disaster. All my children want and deserve my full attention but they constantly have to share. He said 'it's these times, when they have to share with siblings, that will form the children's characters and teach them patience.'You learn patience by waiting, you learn tolerance by dealing with difficult people. I like to think that my children learn to cope with other people by having to cope with one another. But I am under no illusions, we adopted because we wanted to, we had a baby because we wanted to. If you really want to adopt, go for it!

I would also like to say we consider ourselves a success story If Dash had to go to a residential school, for example, I would still consider us a success story. He has a family that will always support him whatever that looks like, but we won't sacrifice all the other members of the family for him. I don't want to see other couples with birth children do that either so that's why I am frank about what we have experienced so far. Interesting what you say about the self fulfilling prophecy Brimble. It was certainly mentioned to us that it would be a shame to waste our considerable parenting experience by matching us with an 'easy' child. That was just an aside from our SW during homestudy not during the matching process.Personally I don't come on here because we have problems. I enjoy the contact with other adopters many of whom I have met in the flesh. It's a way of keeping in touch.Sometimes I do like to post about challenging behaviour because I know people will understand and perhaps have some strategies. I don's say too much to people we see all the time because all they see is a cute little boy who is 'lively'. Some people 'get it' but most don't