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That was cleverIt helps to write somethingThis is not about a particular post just a general observation about many posts recentlyI find it incredibly upsetting how many adopters seem to think there is no commitment to their childI am not talking about extremely challenging behaviours when adopters have really triedJust those who get a shock about the reality of living with childrenBP who give birth to children with SN must get an enormous shock but most battle onIt seems too easy for some folk to decide its not really for themWhen we decided to adopt we agreed that we would be the same as when we had BS - once committed no going back

I don't think anything can prepare you for the emotion you will feel once your child is placed. I sometimes feel a bit exasperated with 'naive' posts, however it's ultimately good that people are able to express their feelings, and perhaps get some peace of mind for the future by doing so. The lack of bond from child to adoptive parent is something which is discussed openly and often, but the lack of bond from adoptive parent to child is a very taboo subject. No one likes to admit that they're not feeling it.You can be theoretically prepared for all sorts, but the reality of it might feel very, very different - and I think (for many reasons) some people probably struggle to ever feel a 'satisfactory' connection to their adopted child (no doubt the same thing happens with birth parents too) and it's just a terribly sad situation. No one is to blame, it's just something which happens.

I think some of the problems stem from a variety of things, lack of proper preparation for adopters, the whole concept of adoption, SS not telling the whole truth about the children and their needs, and adopters expectations.In the old days you adopted a baby aged 3-6 weeks old and you got to start from the beginning. Nowadays the average age for a child to be adopted is 3-4ish, therefore the child has experienced much more trauma from living with and being removed from BF, living with and being moved from FC to FC, and then being moved yet again to live with it's forever family. All these moves and trauma have an affect on the child and add to this the potential damaged to the developing foetus whilst in the womb, is it any wonder a lot of adoptive parents struggle.They are effectively parenting a very complex and needy child where they don't know the whole story and have to guess at a lot of what might, or might not, have occurred to the child before they came home.If you give birth to a disabled or special needs child you cope because you have to, it's your child and you can't send it back, but at least you know you did your best to nurture that child whilst in your womb, you know you didn't drink excessively or take drugs, etc and that if your child is born with special needs then that's just life. You grieve for the child you thought you were going to have and you adjust your life and expectations of what your life is now like and you get on with it.Choosing to adopt a child is different. You have probably had to grieve for the children you can't have, you have probably tried all sorts of invasive procedures before realising that the only way you can achieve your dream is by adopting. (I know not everyone chooses adoption as a last choice, but looking at the statistics, most people do do all they can to have a child of their own first). Then adopters are put through gruelling assessment where every area of their lives are probed into in great detail. They are at the mercy of SS, who can turn them down because they are too fat or they smoke or whatever reason. They then have to face panels of all sorts and be picked apart again. Then they get to the difficult bit. After years and years of yearning for a child they are offered a child who on the surface of it seems to be relatively ok.SS plays on all the positives and plays down the negatives. The adopter maybe doesn't know enough to ask really probing questions (especially if they haven't yet found these boards). They see a picture of a really adorable cute child and their heart strings are pulled. They meet the FC. The FC is told to put a positive spin on the child, don't be too honest, don't tell the whole story we mustn’t put them off. They are quite often told they are in a competative match, if they don't commit to this child the other adopters might get them. They have to make a decision fast Everything appears to be going well, within days the child is moving in, the adopters are thrilled to bits to be parents at last and then – BAM – all hell breaks loose. The child is terrified, the child is grieving, the child is traumatised by leaving it's substitute Mum behind, who are these strangers? Why am I here? Where is my Mum? Child is disruptive, won't do what it's told, won't eat properly, won't go to sleep, keeps crying – Do you know what, all the things I read about in “What to expect the first year aren't working” “What do I do now?” I know I'll phone my SW and say this isn't the child you told me about, can you take it back please I want another one this is too hard! You didn't tell me he would be like this, you didn't tell me he would have difficulties/special needs/autism/adhd/???????? This is too hard – Help????? Where is the help when you need it. What do you mean there is none. Who do I contact? What do I do?I have said before that the whole face of adoption needs to change. If the phrase “Become a specialist parent to a traumatised child” was used instead of “Why not consider adopting a child, you don't have to be married, or rich, or own your own home, etc etc” then people coming forward to adopt would be coming into it with their eyes wide open. They would “get” that most adopted kids will be coming with some form of extra needs, they would “get” that they were unlikely to get a child without “some” additional needs, they would “get” that they need some specialist training before adopting, and very possibly extra specialist training after the child’s needs become more apparent as they get older. Adopted children should come with an adoption allowance as standard, because in a lot of cases one of the parents has to stay at home to cope with their childs needs and inability to cope with after school clubs/hospital appointments/therapy etc etc. This is where it all goes wrong. The promotion of the old myth that “Love will be enough”. It's not!Adopters need massive support and help and someone to turn to when they are struggling. What they don't need is professionals doubting their parenting or their commitment to the child. What they don't need is school/society/family/friends blaming them for their childs behaviours. What they don't need is to be shunned in the playground when their child is blamed for being the disruptive one in the class. Massive support is needed and the Government needs to supply the finance to pay for this or adoption is doomed to failure as more and more adopters are struggling to survive.I know there are still some children that are adopted who don't have problems and who do go on to live normal lives, but I would like to see “real statistics” on this and see a percentage of how many adopted children have little or no problems these days. That would make very interesting reading and then those in power could make proper judgement on the level of support/finance needed in order to make modern day adoptions succeed. Prospective adopters should have the rights to read their prospective child’s file in it's entirety before committing to adopting the child. There should be more transparency, they should not be finding out “surprises” about their child after the child's AO has come through. There should also be more specialist children’s homes for those children who are too damaged to be able to live in a normal family environment. Some children cannot cope with the demands of a normal family.I've probably gone on too long and said too much, but I do wish the powers that be would talk to and take heed of those of us who have already adopted and are wearing the T-shirt. We are the ones who know what it's like, we have been there and we are living with it everyday. We are committed to our children and we know what is needed to ensure that adopted children and their parents can go on to live happy and productive lives, why then does no one listen to us? Why are we constantly undermined and blamed for our childrens needs or problems?

I think it's fair to say that a lot of parents of children with severe developmental needs DO find it very hard to bond, DO wonder what on earth they have let themselves in for, and in some cases DO seek respite (and I mean a LOT of respite) or place their children with foster carers or even for adoption.One of my friends has a birth daughter with PMLD and she tries very hard to get involved with her daughter's school - this is primary school age though the school goes right through I think. But she says that it's almost impossible to get parent governors because so many of the children live with foster carers.Another friend has a son on the moderate to severe end of the autistic spectrum. While in some ways they do have a good family life, and her son is able to do things like go on walks with the family, they also use a LOT of respite. Basically just so they can get some sleep as far as I can tell.In those placed long term with foster carers, or eventually relinquished, I can't think it will be anything other than the hardest decision they've ever made. But it does happen, and I get the impression (especially from my first friend) that it's fairly common.

I agree with JMk.I knew life as an adopter would be hard but did not bargain just how hard it would be.I returned my daughter to care because after years of abuse from her I decided to put the needs of my other children first.I know it was her trauma and experiences but I had reached breaking point.even though there had been lots of support. I was lucky we had a happy ending she eventually ran away from her FC but back to me and I gave her a chance to be part of the family. She grabbed it and not all plain sailing but we have a life.I am not sure people realise just how hard it is.And I believe people have different coping levels just like there are different pain thresholds. I have had to do everything for my adopted children where as my bs from an early age has just had to get on with life and has often missed out on things.He just seems to absorb things and knows instinctively what to do but I am sure that is to do with lack of trauma and sound attachments.

JMK, I don't think you have gone on or said to much. I think your response is very well put and thought through. I agree with a lot of what you say. I sometimes wonder if these children are best placed with people (for all their love and best intentions) with no experience. We are only 7 months in with our now 8 year old. She is very different to our BD which we knew she would be. We knew it was a different kind of parenting, we knew she would have emotional differences. We (as a strong couple) have struggled even with lots of support. I get very upset with this whole subject as our LO came to us from a disruptive placement. She was there 7 weeks!!!!! The saddest thing is she was placed with 2 siblings. She left, then a few months later another one was placed back into care and now the couple have the 1 much younger girl who they have adopted. During the first 7 weeks I was low, LO was grieving for her FC, this was her 6th home, she didn't trust me, she gave me the "Death Stare", she pushed me away. But I'm the grown up. I have to be there for her. As my Mum says "Pull up your big girl panties and deal with it" . No one at any point said it was going to be easy. It's not! But we made that commitment and she needs us to be there even when she's pushing us away. We seem to be making progress (I'm doing the full babying) she is happy and giggly and loving. My heart breaks when I think of how many times she was rejected before she came to us.So, I started this by saying jmk had thought out her post and here I am ranting on. However, I am going to press the submit button. I'm sorry if I upset anyone, but I'm hopefully giving food for thought from a different angle. Whether we blame SS, councils, birth parents, government or medics someone has to pick up the pieces.

I've been thinking again (yes, I know that's a bad thing) but maybe “Trying them out” as Abiee's title suggests actually isn't such a bad idea.To clarify what I mean is that with older children say from 5+ perhaps a better way of doing it would be for approved adopters to firstly have proper access to the child’s SW and the child’s files and life story, then when they think this is a child they want to adopt, instead of the usual 10 -14 days Intro's, the adopter should become a visitor to the childs Foster Home, kind of like a befriender where the gradually get to know the child aided by the FC. They could get to know the child over a longer period of time, say visiting at w/e's and learning more about each other and gradually building up more of a relationship and trust etc etc. Graduating into taking the child out alone and maybe eventually with the child spending a sleepover at the adopters home for the odd night until the child and the adopter are sure about each other. This would be a far more gentle experience for both parties and in the early stages perhaps the child shouldn't be told that this is your potential new Mum/Dad, until the adopter is pretty sure they want to proceed. That way if the adopter decided this child wasn’t for them, at least there would be less damage done as the child wouldn’t be so aware and wouldn't have had the trauma of moving and disruption. It would be a kind of “Trying them out so to speak” but in a far gentler non invasive way. It would involve a lot of time and effort from the adopter and the FC, especially where distance is involved, but surely anyone wanting to get it right would make this effort, after all it's not like choosing a puppy is it? I think this would be a half way house somewhere between the current high risk, high speed, intro/placements and the awful American Adoption parties where children know they are on offer. If handled sensitively I think this could work especially with older children.I admire any adopters who take on older children with their pre-set ways, opinions, likes and dislikes. I don't think I would have been brave enough to do it and I think they are amazing for doing so. This is what I mean about changing the way things are being done at the moment. The Governments wanting to speed up adoptions worries me, if anything they should be slowing it down, especially for older or more needy children. We can't afford to get it wrong. These children deserve better.

Sorry Slippertime I hadn't read your post until after I posted my latest thoughts.Don't apologise at all, your DD's story is heartbreaking and she is a lucky girl to have found you.

When I first adopted over 11 years ago it was just another way of having a family. I wanted to be a mother. The whole pregnancy and birth thing was of lesser significance. I knew nothing about funnelling, therapeutic parenting and nor was I expecting it to be any different to just having a baby. And though we did have a very young baby, it soon became apparent that this was different to regular parenting. Even with a 5 month old. There were many times when I didn't really like him that much, I struggled to adapt to being a mother, I discovered quite quickly that I wasn't the sort of mother I'd fantasised about being. Life got easier three years in. And then middly was placed. Followed by littly 20 months later.And my life is nothing like how I imagined it would be.Two of my easy to place babies are rapidly collecting dxs. So far we have ADHD, ASD, poss dyslexia, speech and language disorder, eye problems. My life is a series of appointments. I've not been able to return to work because middly, particularly, couldn't cope. Even now 8 years in. Maybe it's easier

Oops, dog stepped on iPad!Maybe it's easier because all of these issues have developed over time by which time they were MY kids regardless and I had that bond, that strong urge to fight for them. Maybe I would have struggled more had they been placed when they were older? But the thing is a lot of these dxs have been made from the time they were 6 on and I've had to battle to get them. So even adopting an older child doesn't always necessarily mean that you're going to know everything. There may still be some surprises in store and, as a parent, you have to be prepared for that chance and accept that there are no guarantees.I do think there is still a lot of ignorance around re early trauma. The old chestnut 'love can conquer all'. Well no, not necessarily although it will help you to advocate for your child. Equally I think that too many problems are being put down to attachment when in fact there's a strong chance of underlying mental health issues which no amount of therapeutic parenting alone will cure.Birth families are often dysfunctional for a reason, not just because its how they were brought up and it's all they know. Why were they brought up like that? Why did they abuse drugs, alcohol? Why viiolent, abusive relationships?Parenting will invariably be not how you imagined it. Often it's tedious, a lot of time is spent refereeing, sometimes it's boring, other times it brings you to your knees with exhaustion and frustration. Often it makes you want to weep, to scream. I worry when I see posts from people who fall in love with a little person on paper. When they meet for the first time. Yes, there can sometimes be a strong pull, sometimes a chemistry, but what happens when the reality doesn't match up with the fantasy? As so often happens.

J,k , interested to read about your trial ideas. My experience with ds2 was in this category.he needed to move FC anyway so came to us initially as a foster child. So we had a sort of trial period anyway!

I would agree with jmk about the need to work towards an acknowledgment of adopters as 'specialist parents to traumatised children'. Could we have a system whereby propsective adopters signed up to a specialist parenting preparation programme, which was acknowledged nationally? ie much more emphasis on skills needed, needing to reach an agreed standard in terms of skills and childcare experience etc. I have to say I have recently been on the receiving end of my first bit of blatant patronising, and it was infuriating. The thought of someone having the audacity to tell me a)how 'normal' parents would react to something as opposed to substandard old me and b)someone who has no experience of adoption other than happening to be married to an adult adoptee telling me all about the needs of adopted children makes my blood boil. And this from a continence nurse!!! It would be nice to be given a bit of respect as a (now moderately) experienced adopter.

Great reply jmkThe whole system stinks really. My DD was let down by the system the whole way through, even before she was bornI am now battling with CAMHS and SS to try and get her some helpI feel for the children caught up in this

Abiee that's why it is up to us adopters to try and get those who make the rules to change them because the present ones do not work all that well anymore and it's the children who are being let down as well as the well meaning (but slightly naieve) adopters who aren't being prepared properly. The whole adoption process needs a massive shake up and a re-think.

I'm one who has done the 'falling in love within 24 hours' and the 'trying out'. It has worked for us, but I do have reservations...I - by chance - became a respite mum for my 2 DDs, and completely fell in love with LO (aged 2) the first day, and with bigger one (aged 10)over the next few months.I had to fight - to the point of getting a lawyer involved - to make the SWs listen to the girls and apply the law. In the process I became 'mum' because I was the one who put them and their best interests first, and who consistently loved them and cared for them.There have been tough times! Nothing can prepare you for the reality of being a parent 24/7, even having had 3 years to build a relationship of love and trust and mutual expectations.HOWEVER - if I had walked away because it was all too much (my own mental health has taken a battering, it has disrupted my career etc) then I would have been yet another adult who walked away. Even though I didn't go into it with a commitment to become their mother, children who have had a number of rejections are often desparate for connection and hugely sensitive to even the smallest rejection.Plus, although they have some difficulties, on the whole they are healthy, intelligent, able to cope with close relationships and well behaved. The battering came more from the system than from the girls. They are very easy to love, and we have collected a number of 'aunties' from their previous carers that we are still in touch with and visit. I'm not sure that it would have worked with children with greater needs (although of course you wouldn't be using someone who ended up becoming 'Mum' without meaning to, but who was prepared to take on a child with those needs!).I think jmk's comments about SWs being open and honest are the key. Behaviours shouldn't come as a shock, although there will always be a difference between knowing about them and experiencing them! But knowing about them should go hand in hand with strategies to deal with them. Longer intros could be good - the children's home where I worked (and met my DDs) have a reunification/long-term foster programme for their children that requires at least 6 months of visits every weekend and school holiday before the child goes to the family permanently.I suspect it comes down to money - experienced & well-trained SWs, support packages, thorough assessment and intervention with the child before they are placed etc

I think there should be much longer intros - including a pre-match period of hanging around as FC's "friend" - for younger children too, though not as a "trying on" period for adopters, but as a familiarisation period for the child or baby too. I'd say as soon as a link is made, there is no reason (there's no legal reason now) why PAPs couldn't go and visit the FCs a couple of times a week.I was reading this recentlyhttp://adoptandkeepcalm.wordpress.com/2013/04/14/transition-looking-back/It is just shocking that a toddler could be "transitioned" to a new adopter like this. But it's not far off "best practice" for toddlers and babies who are firmly attached to their FCs, right in the middle of separation anxiety, and largely nonverbal so can't understand in any way that they have not been abandoned to strangers i.e. kidnapped. I don't understand at all why short intros are thought to be best for babies and toddlers.

I just wanted to say thanks - ver thought provoking. Now that we've got a matching panel date, thoughts turn to 'will we be up to it' and 'will we bond'.A buddy at work who adopted siblings, one of which is particularly challenging, told me that he wished he'd met an adopter who'd talked about love. He says he now loves his daughter, which wasn't at first sight - and he's working towards loving his son. They've been with them a couple of years.As someone who's still at the 'concept' end of the process, I found this really helpful - I haven't failed if my heart doesn't soar and there isn't violin music and butterflies.I intend to give love - but that doesn't mean I'll straight away feel it........

The best of luck Curiosity. You seem to get it. Oddly, it was this weekend when I realised that I am feeling love rather than the empathy I felt at the beginning. Shadow, really interesting reading. For the first few months when LO was full of rage and rejecting me I kept asking everyone that question. "What if I'm wrong for her? " . She would show affection towards everyone except me, I really believed that they had chosen the wrong Mummy for her. Luckily she was fine with my husband. If he hadn't been around, would I have given up? I don't think so but it is true that sometimes SS get it wrong. I was tidying LO's room this morning and found a note saying how happy she is and wants to stay here forever and ever and ever.

We were pretty naive before our children came home. To an extent I think we had to be! Nothing could have prepared me for the reality of living with two traumatized children. But, we are doing ok. We're making progress. I think that a certain stubbornness is helpful, perhaps the irritations of the assessment process help to select stubborn people to adopt!I don't think the 'trying out' would help much. We had quite lengthy (over two months) introductions and that was very stressful for the children. They were very confused (aged five and three, at the time) about what was happening, and I don't think that helped. We still have a lot of stress at the anniversary of moving in, after nearly four years. For us, the long introductions meant that the children weren't sure what was happening, or who was moving where, I think if children first knew adopters as visitors, they might end up expecting future visitors to the house to take them away again. Surely the only way to reduce distruptions us to give prospective adopters ALL information before asking them to make a commitment, and then to give adopters tailored support packages.