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Thank you for sharing your story, you raise a number of really important issues and I'm not really sure how to respond to you but I didnt want to not reply either.

I have one adopted son, I would go the ends of the earth for him, he couldnt be more mine than if I had given birth to him. I know lots of adopters, and those that I know personally, are like me in that respect. I know many adopters who have sacrificed careers, financial stabilty, marriages because they adopted. But I think you are right in that over the years I have been active on forums such as these I have seen a shift in some adopters attitudes, the rise of this search for the perfect little prince or princess. On adoption forums you see the constant stream of requests for 'positive ' stories, by which people really mean trouble free. But to be honest I also see this reflected in non adoptive families as well. Our society and culture has changed so much, the rise of materialism and consumerism, the pursuit of the perfect child is part of that. Look at the pressure we put on children now in school, to achieve academically, competitive parenting. Reading mumsnet has been a revelation to me.

I do think our child services are deeply flawed and in many places on the point of collapse. I think Social workers are overwhelmed. My son has a sibling currently in residential care. I have made a number of safeguarding complaints. I have been trying to foster him for a year. I shoudnt have had to do what I have done to get social services to listen to me, and he should not have been left in this situation as long as he has. But I find it very difficult to blame anyone - they work in a broken system.

I do have two friends whose birth children had very complex needs that ended with the child being accomodated in residental units because the families could not cope.

I have always been broadly sympathetic towards my son's birth parents. They loved their children but were too overwhelmrd by their own problems to look after children. But I also know that there are many children out there whose birth families perpetrated the most horrendous, criminal abuse on their children. I cant really blame the adoptive parents for not wishing the birth family would just let go.

Adoption is a hugely complex thing, there are no easy answers. Only you know if ultimately adoption is for you. I wish you well with whatever you decide

Thank-you for your honesty & sharing, it must have been very hard for you..

I too feel very similiarly to serrakunda... she has put it accross so very well & in a very balenced way..... I hope my view comes accross equally reasoned....

I think life naturally gives us our own personal experiences, that round our character & experiences to become our norm & pool of understanding lifes sad, good, fair, unfair attitudes... We all have our personal axes to grind & come to adoption for our own personal need or wish. In all walks of life it takes allsorts moulded by nurture/nature or educational experiences..

I think like serrakunda says, throughout my personal adoption experience I have witnessed a huge shift in attitude, wishes or thought process of some of those coming into the process....

But as always in life it is up to the individual to harness themselves & rise above the demons. Life afterall is a constant learning curve, I think it is therefore all about seeking out truths & doing the best we can. Like serrakunda I will go thro fire for my sons. I have never personally strivven for perfection ( impossible as I am very far from that myself) & I certainly will never 'send them back'. Life has been very very traumatic for my sons & myself obviously too. But going into adoption 'eyes wide open' is piviotal in plotting the road ahead & how/ where to gain help.

As a single mum to 2 very young boys I did have to consider & 'pick' as you bizzarrely describe it.. I saw the picking as crucial to be able to be certain I could fulfill my sons needs. I knew at outset they had very large issues in certain areas. Because I refuse to give up when I do almost anything in my life, this was why this above all things I had to have researched to a high degree to be sure my own resilience, determination, hard headedness would see us thro to the very end.

We are still not there yet, but more than ever I fight harder & harder for them to meet their needs. We are 11 years in.

Our own personal life experiences obviously can irrevocably alter certain thought/learning processes. Knowing my strengths & weaknesses has improved our odds enormously...

I am so very saddened reading your story. You are astonishing to be able to be so reasoned & understanding about why & how your adopted parents did as they did...

My only response to you about others reasons for 'picking' & wanting to adopt.... each of us come to life to do things their own way for own reasons. Fact.

You clearly have so much wisdom & love to offer hold onto that & do what is in your heart for you xxx

Xx I hope I have given a balenced view of why adoption is 100% right for me & why I will never ever give up my sons xx

Xx moo xx

I first read this last night but wanted to ponder before replying. Your adoption seems to have not been a positive experience and based on that there appears a lot of antipathy towards adopters for their motives for adopting, as well as towards your own adoptive parents. We all come to adoption for different reasons. No one reason is better than the next, no one reason is more altruistic than the next. There are many varied reasons. It sounds like your adoption was some years ago and possibly training was quite different then than it is now. I’m not making excuses for anyone’s behaviour btw, just that there was less understanding about the difficulties that a child may come with. When I first adopted it was all about ‘attachment’, never any mention of trauma and the assumption was that younger meant easier meant they wouldn’t remember life pre adoption. Thankfully that’s changed. Maybe more support for your parents to parent you would have helped.

I know parents who have had to return their children to care but I know that it’s never been done easily or without an awful lot of heartache. Sometimes children are simply too hurt to be able to live in a family. That’s not a fault of the adopter or the child - the damage was done long before adoption and often the support is simply not there for families to work through it. It’s rarely as simple as sending a child back. Not in my experience. So no judgement from me for adopters who’ve had no choice other than section 20. And those adopters are still their children’s parents - albeit from a distance.

The checklist - I remember doing this and it’s a tricky one. But with a good social worker to talk you through it, a fairly important aspect of the process. You can’t really compare having a birth child to adopting. It’s completely different. I accept slightly different for you but most birth parents know the family genetics and history. They know that they didn’t abuse drugs or alcohol during pregnancy, they know their health during pregnancy. Adopters are likely to not know those things and that’s when the checklist can force some difficult decisions. Far better to be honest at the outset and say you don’t think you’d be able to parent a child with, eg, FAS/D than have it fall apart later. However there also has to be an acceptance that it comes with no guarantees- I said no to autism. I have two children with autism!

I wonder whether adoption is right for you right now? Would some counselling help you work through some of the feelings you currently have? It may well be that your social worker will suggest it anyway as you move through the process?

There is still a degree of ignorance about modern day adoption and, frankly, programmes like Long Lost Family aren’t helpful. Historical adoption is completely different to modern day adoption. Rarely are babies relinquished for social reasons. More often than not they’re taken into care after long family histories or neglect, abuse, chaos and dysfunction. And those traumas will not simply go away once a child is with his/her forever family. Trauma starts in utero. Before that. And yes, we’ve all read the ‘positive stories please’ threads ... I’ve been accused of negativity many times. I’m not. My children are amazing and are thriving and doing well. But it hasn’t been easy and there have been many difficulties along the way. We hung on in there. But I’m not complacent and I dare say we’re not out the other side.

I wish you well in whatever you decide to do

Serrakunda27

Thank you for your reply. I hope you manage to help your son's brother.

I’m also going to suggest counselling - ideally from a specialist service related to adoption - you’ve obviously had a lot of very difficult things happen to you in your life and these all seem to touch on adoption in some way as it is. The adoption process can be very emotional and trigger lots of issues in people they thought they’d dealt with - and that’s in people with far less complex backgrounds than yours. It would give you a way of venting your feelings without these coming across too strongly when speaking to social workers - I’m not saying you should hide your feelings but social workers like to see you’ve reached some measure of understanding and acceptance and can talk about things in a balanced way. Not only during the process can things be triggered - but throughout your children’s lives there will be very difficult things to deal with - things that have happened to them, things that continue to happen to them through school issues or through them maybe not getting the help they need and their behaviour itself. Adopters have to be extremely resilient - so I would strongly recommend counselling - as I said ideally from a specialist service. This will go in your favour during assessment and afterwards and won’t be seen as a weakness but as a strength

moo

Thank you for your reply. "Picking" is interesting - neither me nor my partner have a preference for age. We are both aware that any child that comes to us is highly likely to have the genetic components that increase the risk of "issues" of varying descriptions. Our son has a preference for a child who is at least 5. He thinks he will be of more help to an older child when it comes to settling in. Interestingly, the three of us agreed that we would feel a bit selfish taking the opportunity to parent a baby away from a couple who cannot conceive in the conventional sense. Irrational maybe, but apparently not all that uncommon amongst adopters with birth children. We wouldn't turn a baby away if there was reason we were thought to be an especially good match.

Looks aren't important to us. We are happy to take a child of any ethnic or cultural background - we are lucky to live in a diverse area. My partner is black Caribbean and I am white British. He is a nurse so theoretically, we could take a child with quite demanding health needs though we have pondered the impact of taking a child who is life limited on my son. We haven't raised that with him.

A general question for everyone: I see some people express a preference for a child who resembles them - or at least,doesn't immediately stand out as a child they could not conceive. My question is about how this fits in with the necessity to disclose to the child and whether this becoming a focal point of one's "checklist" would be met with concern by agencies and social workers . As at least one person guessed, I wasn't a modern adoptee - (I'm 40) and some people my age and many people older were not told of their adoption status which caused trauma in its own sense.

I've had a fair amount of therapy and that is why I am less understanding of the people who adopted me than I used to be which is overall, better for me.

I never expressed a preference for a child who looked like me. It simply wasn’t a thing. Some people say my eldest looks like my husband. Can’t see it personally. But I have half siblings who look nothing like each other - though have similar body shapes. Middly completely different. I don’t think any particularly look like me or husband though they have taken on certain personality traits!

Im not convinced that there are many/any adopters who try to hide the fact that the children are adopted. Everyone I know is very open about it. We have regular conversations with our kids - they all know, youngest has had therapeutic lifestory work very recently. It’s a part of who they are - but just one part. It doesn’t define them. We’ve never ‘disclosed’ adoption to our kids - they’ve just always known. And they were all babies when they arrived. Drip feed in an age appropriate way.

Re the additional needs - be wary. Working with children with additional needs is not the same as living with them 24/7. You will be responsible for battling for support - and that can in itself be a full time job. Two of mine are diagnosed asd, statemented and in special Ed. Getting them diagnosed and supported has been a full time job - I’m still a sahm.

Donatella

Thank you for your reply.

I disagree that some reasons for adopting aren't worse than others. I mean, obviously, very few but some people over time have done it for purely malicious reasons. But putting them aside, I think there are reasons which are less ethical than others. Less ethical in the sense that they are driven by selfish motivation which ultimately overwhelms your ability to take on new and/or conflicting information which should inform if not alter your actions.

What I struggle with in terms of the checklist is that as you say, there are no guarantees but in the case of adoption (here at least), there are not only no guarantees but there is an explicit likelihood that adopted children will have some difficulties. Okay, it might not be apparent at the time of their adoption but any problem that was apparent could be equally as demanding as something that is recognised later in life. I can only compare it to having a child that you believed was neurotypical but was recognised to have ADHD or autism in later life and having a child who was confirmed to have Downs Syndrome before birth. With one, you expect they will need health and educational support throughout their life, and with the other, you don't expect that at birth but still end up providing the same level of additional care and supervision. So given that we know there are no certainties other than that any adopted child is highly likely to have these genetic and social components that increase risk, should people who are very apprehensive about parenting a child with additional needs be considered good candidates for adoption? From what I have seen, some seem to be approved.

It's interesting how you view Long Lost Family, I see most people on there coming from backgrounds of abuse and dependence in a similar way to the adoptees of today. Just back then, many of these things were seen as normal. We have labels for it today.

Safia

My main concern is about the inevitable need for an adopted child to spend time with other adoptees and adopters. I know we don't have the motivations that concern me so greatly, but it isn't just about us. With my background,it will be vital for my adopted child to spend time with people who have different experiences of the system. Vital.

Donatella

My son has additional needs:

" I become pregnant at 28. The doctors had told me that I was unlikely to conceive but for some reason, I did. I had the normal antenatal screening suggested by the NHS and no issues were suspected. I had a straightforward waterbirth at home and raised a typically developing son for some time until it became obvious that he struggled with academia. He was diagnosed with dyslexia and some other processing difficulties which, as he got older, caused more frustration and aggressive, disruptive and offensive behaviour. Thankfully, things are more settled."

This is partially why we postponed adoption until now where we are seriously pursuing it.

Thanx... The picking bit was following your catalogue comment which I totally understand btw..

I always had the come back when working with my sw, mixed heritage for me is ideal as a single adopter, because the missing parent could be of any heritage type. I believed (and still do) that I was prepared to research & provide all knowlege & heritage support for my children. Back then sw opinion was very different, particularly down to the area I live & lack of different heritages in our everyday circle. But like you 'looks' were never an issue for me... Back in my time a photo was never given until after matching anyway! General vague description was it!

Certainly activity events were never even dreamed of yet.. So it was all down to child permanence reports paper descriptions... meeting the child was never allowed..

A baby was never a wish for me. I only felt that the older age was attractive to me. This was led mainly down to being sure I could meet the high needs of my future children.. As it turned out toddlers were what I got, with very high aggreed & suspected ( by professionals) needs..But the match felt right & indeed couldn't have been more perfect..

I wish you lots of luck in your journey...

I too concluded you were 'older' & that you had spent a good deal of time facing up to your demons to understand hidden worries that could with time become unexpected issues...

I look forward to hearing more as your journey progresses xx

Xx moo xx

I just want to wish you luck on your journey,

The system is thoroughly appalling, and there is nothing you can do about it.

what comes over very strongly in your post, is you are knowledgable, intelligent, have life experience, and you will try your damnest to make it work, for the potential child, your son, yourself and your partner. I think you are fully aware that adoption is about the child’s needs and not yours.

what I will say about “ picking” a child is that.....

i personally don’t have any faith in the matching system.

i fully intend, not to pick , but express an interest in a child that I have observed at an activity day or seen in a publication. And my rational behind this is, I know what my strengths and limitations are, and I will only express an interest in a child that I know I will make a connection with, and thus move heaven and earth for. For me, it’s about claiming and also an element of control.

We found our daughter in one of the adoption magazines - it was hard to place children who were featured - to enhance their chance of finding a family. We enquired about her not because of her looks but because the small amount of information provided sounded as if it was a good match for us. When we enquired we heard she had a 2mth old brother too. He wasn’t featured because he wasn’t at the same stage in he legal process (he was in a different LA) and I think if he had been it would have changed the type of responses they got. The reason we did this was because it felt like we had more control over the process that way - and in fact it worked well for us because although we were still being assessed they decided to go ahead with us so the two things ran concurrently. But our children were very young - so there was very little known about the issues that would later affect them - it was a question of weighing up potential risks - but also there were things then that were not thought to have any genetic component but have since been found they do have. It is very complex - and I think a general level of knowledge about potential issues together with some knowledge of what can be done - how to get help - and access to a site such as this is all you can do - except of course with very clear identifiable conditions. We had older birth children too but went for younger toddlers as they felt it would be easier for them to bond (didn’t always work out that way though) We have had learning difficulties and mental health difficulties - most of which weren’t easily predictable - but there were indicators - but I think if we’d been put off by the level of “evidence” available we wouldn’t have taken any children! It’s all a question of balancing possibilities and advocating for your child

Hello all, and welcome to you AdopteetoAdopter.

I am glad you have found the forum, and you are very welcome. Also, thank you for sharing some really personal information about your own adoption. I think we can all agree that it is ALWAYS very useful to hear a perspective that some of us will never have experienced (being adopted or to have experienced our care system).

Equally, I am hopeful that some of the support and words you get from the parent community will be useful for you too in the next stage of your journey.

We all live in a world where "adoption" is extremely complex, and our forum is designed to ensure inclusivity and support - however, (obviously) our experiences are from differing ends of the adoption spectrum.

Some of the terms and language that we use as parents is partly learned from social workers and agencies, and I am sure that whether a parent or someone who has experience of being adopted, we all want to ensure the correct language is used.

From my own personal perspective of some of the things you have picked out AdopteetoAdopter - I reflect on the early days of the process and acknowledge mine and my partners naivety - I strongly believe that this is due to the perception of adoption at that time, and whilst I know a number of adopted people (of a range of ages) their stories were very different in a lot of ways, but similar in some. I would imagine that the majority of parents who have a few years "under their belt" have the same feeling, and whilst it may have been difficult, the majority will have attempted to learn about how to help their family, and I think we all know that this is blimming hard when the support and help is not always accessible.

All these years later, I would probably have made different choices when thinking about the "type" of child when we were being assessed. I would have likely have been much more inclusive to health and other potential difficulties, however, at that stage, I think, like I say, naivety and steering from "professionals" was what drove us forward. (Just one example of a number of areas)

Anyway, at the risk of rambling - I hope that you will enjoy your time on the forum, and help us to learn (and vice versa) and help to bridge the gap in terms of some of the information and language we can all use to ensure the children/young people (and adults) who have experienced adoption feel that they are being listened to and potentially helping them in their futures.

Best wishes

Scott

As there have already been lots of good posts, I won't repeat anything that has been said before. Justvwanted to come bacm to your point of picking a child who looks like it could be your birth child.

We did that and it was very important to us. The reason being, we already had two birth children and we felt that it would make it easier for the child to integrate into our family and feel more a genuine part of the family, if they did not have to deal with the added complication of visually "looking out of place". Where any stranger would comment on the fact they are so obviously different and everyone would know straight away they were adopted.

We also felt it might cause jealousy, a feeling of not belonging and maybe being less able to attach if they were constantly looking at their siblings and possibly comparing themselves to them.

And although we have been talking about adoption in a child appropriate manner since day one and LO knows what adoption is, sometimes it is good if not everyone can spot this. Otherwise it is like the child is wearing a badge "I am adopted" and frankly, there are too many cruel people out there who simply do not need to know. The ones who will ask things like, oh, what did they do that their parents no longer wanted them? Children who will say stuff, like you'll just end up in prison, so I won't play with you.

It happens, but since we have moved and we took the decision to announce adoption on a needs to know basis, we have had to deal with far less prejudice. It's the children's private story and it needn't be presented to all and sundry. They have enough to deal with.

Just another point on other people knowing - I think it’s helpful for them to know other children / people who are adopted - it normalises it - and often you only come to know by being open yourself about it. Also I think it’s important schools should know - but again as Zora said on a need to know basis. Although we didn’t consciously look for physical likenesses we were once in A&E with my son and the doctor said to my husband I can see you are the Dad! (Anyway he was a baby when we were being considered and we hadn’t seen his photo) My daughter has a positive identity regarding her adoption and her culture (she is ethnically mixed - the same mix as we are) - but has great difficulty acknowledging her learning difficulties and adjustments she has to make for this.

Thank you for sharing your story Adopteetoadopter.

Actually I was a bit shocked following our matching to be told that our son’s SW initially noticed our PAR because my partner looks very much like our son. He had 40 plus couples enquire about him and I am fairly sure that the physical resemblance was what tipped the balance in our favour.

I was then struck in our local adopter group (for pre-school children) that the vast majority of children looked very much like their adoptive parents. So obviously it is a major factor in SW decisions about matching.

I look nothing like my son and it has never bothered me in the slightest. But my son obviously adores looking like my partner and loves people commenting on the resemblance.

It’s just one factor amongst many to consider in matching - I am sure the very least important - but interesting how physical appearance retains such prominence in decision-making.

On the subject of who looks like who, I once read a blog by an adoptee who had been adopted internationally. She had an adopted sibling too, also adopted from the same country. They were of a different ethnic heritage than their adoptive parents. What this adoptee said was that all of her childhood, she could never ignore the fact that she was adopted - it was obvious to everybody who saw their family so she felt she could never have it as private knowledge; it was out there for everyone to see all of the time, and it sometimes invited unwelcome comments too. I thought that was a really useful perspective.

I think that people generally go into adoption because they want to be parents - and initially many (including me) are quite naïve about the realities.

But that is part of the process - the questions about matching are as much about exploring the realities of adoption as about the child you will eventually get. I had worked in residential care and stated I didn't want a child with full time physical care needs as I wasn't sure I could cope with that 24/7 rather than just 8 hours shifts. I also said no to a child who had been sexually abused - as again I felt I would struggle with the longer term behaviours - but in the end our eldest disclosed sexual abuse and displayed the associated behaviours - and we did cope. I hadn't at that stage even really considered the additional needs that come from a history of trauma and abuse. Our kids do have complex needs and the road has been tough - but we've stuck with them and they are all now young adults - its not been the journey I'd imagined but we have all grown through the experience.

In terms of looks, it wasn't an issue for us and in fact our children are physically dissimilar to us - and it has caused minor issues - lots of questions which can be hard to handle - in fact the first time I was asked it took me by surprise and I blurted out to a complete stranger that they were adopted. I can see the advantage of a similar look....but I don't think it should be a high priority.

Adopteetoadopter - I do think you have a lot to offer and your understanding of the issues will really help - some of those you have met so far will drop out along the way - they will realise the full extent of modern adoption and discover its not for them (maybe with some guidance from SW) - others will learn and grow and go on to make successful adoptive parents. Sadly a few will slip through the net - but hopefully the process means it is just a few. Good luck with your journey.