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It seems very encouraging that she recognises it’s a problem. Perhaps you can work on that and yes, maybe access post adoption support. If you don’t address it she’s going to end up pretty isolated and like you say, gravitating towards the troublemakers.

Maybe it’s not as straightforward as a blatant lie? Have you come across confabulation? We get this a fair bit with my daughter particularly - more often there’s a grain of truth which gets embroidered. Plus a lack of consequential thinking, poor exec functioning, cause and effect etc. She’s autistic so there’s also mindblindness in the mix.

If I’m in doubt about a story then I will always check with school before I respond - it’s important to have the sort of open relationship with school so they’re aware of these tendencies. My daughter has told lies about stuff at home in school as well so it can work both ways.

And I give her the opportunity to have a little think - ‘I think this might be what happened’ then walk away. More often than not, without placing demands on her, she will then tell the truth. In her time. In her words.

Confabulation is common in kids With fas/fasd. Any diagnoses?

For my daughter is has been part of an avoidant attachment style. Each time I felt we were getting very close, she would start to lie and to take things to alienate me and to create an emotional distance that felt safe for her. Therapy has helped a lot with it. In times of high stress, she will still take things and lie, but it doesn't feel personal anymore and I know she is trying hard not to do it. I usually go with my gut feeling. If I think she is lying, I just calmly give her what I think is the correct version of the story and walk away. These days it usually doesn't take long for her to come and tell me the truth. She is very unhappy about it herself. Impulsiveness is in the mix too.

@chestnuttree, your posting really resonated for me as we have lots of stealing and lying going on here (among other things) and I (with the benefit of my Big Girl being on Guide camp for two gloriously liberating & relaxing evenings for me & her adoptive sibling) can rationalise what you’re saying. I REALLY struggle with the lying and stealing (maybe that’s my bog-standard middle-class ‘normal’ childhood values kicking in) so it’s refreshing to read that it’s possible to reframe and move on. The lack of impulse control is truly terrible here as well.

Lying here is used at times of high anxiety. DS can deny something that is obvious or accuse someone of something that is not physically possible. It can be a way of trying to avoid the shame of doing something wrong.

Thank you so much for all the replies.

@donatella, no my daughter doesn't have a diagnosis,

I think I'm taking everything so personal, I find difficult to deal with lies, it makes me anxious about what will be the next drama. She's got my friend's son in trouble once and luckily I managed to save the friendship. So it has been 8 years of a very bumpy ride. Shes very affectionate and quite delightful girl , but I feel alienated most of the time by. It's taking a toll on my mental health.

Im going to put some suggestions in practice. I tried to get adoption support to help us but it has been 2 years since they contacted us snd i never heard back

My daughter used to lie and steal she's in her late teens now,being in this group gives me a better understanding of why she may be doing it. She's told wicked lies about myself which devastated me at the time.

Hello. My adopted children both lied often. But confabulation is a key point of understanding I didn’t have when they were younger.

I did know a bit about child development and understand that kids often get stuck at a mental age at some points. Age 4-6 Mentally and you are into magical thinking. Telling stories that aren’t true but you have imagined can be part of magical thinking, under 2 emotionally - well- you have a tiny memory, short attention span and just want to run about...

my oldest Partridge is now 24. He doesn’t live at home now- will lie about everything and anything. He will say things like ‘I saw Clive on the way to work and had a chat’

what my son doesn’t know is that I happen to know Clive is in Tenerife, on holiday.

Why did Partridge lie? No concrete answer. maybe he thinks it is pleasant conversation and one he perceives I would approve of. Maybe he’d dissociated and missed a chunk of time and presented this as happening today rather than 3 weeks ago when it actually did happen. Maybe he wants me to know he thinks Clive is a nice bloke. It could be he can’t go feeling too close to me or mr pt so has to feel he’s got one over on us to cope with being loved. perhaps he thought because I know and like Clive this brings him positive attention. Perhaps consider what might have been going through DD’s head at the time of lying

I have found some things help.

First. Don’t argue the toss. They’ll swear black is white. Then you’ll get cross. Don’t go there. Say ‘how nice’ or ‘sorry to hear that’ do something else and change the subject.

Check out Bryan Post on YouTube about lying and stealing. Also, holly van gulden on permanence and constancy. (These are short clips!)

Listen to the need behind the lie. eg. ‘Jim pushed me in the line and so I didn’t get time to eat my lunch’

Is there a problem with the amount of food or ease of getting food out? Is she anxious about being first in line- connected with early neglect? Speak to the teacher about this...

In a crisis. Assume they are not being truthful in the way you and I would see as truthful. Eg Imagine child with choc around their mouth and in their fingers. work out something to say like ‘I believe in all honesty you are your sisters chocolate. (They will almost certainly yell they are innocent) to put things right we will go to Tesco and you will help me buy another one. If I find out I am wrong, I will apologise and put things right between us.’

Explain to school and others this is part of their trauma and trying to fit in with their peers/ teachers/ other children. In a great many of adoptees experiences, disguising or hiding the truth was part of daily life prior to adoption

for lies that are huge and have large ramifications. Try and stroke when the iron is cold. It’s fine to say ‘I’m feeling too cross to talk about this right now’ and wait a good 40mins to cool off.

If you do confront a child re a lie. Try and do it matter of fact, unpersonally.

Eg The coat went missing from the peg. The children ran outside. A child didn’t have a coat so she cried. The coat was found in another child’s bag. That child felt very cross when she had to give the coat to the other girl and had to say sorry.

Maybe go for some role play with puppets or just each other. Wonder aloud how each person in the incident felt.

Try & build her up something where she can’t easily fail. So moonsand, playdough, book on CD from the library, marblerun, sorting out Christmas cards into any order she likes. Enjoy it together. Compliment what she is making rather than saying ‘you are doing this nicely’ . That this playdough model of a mermaid is stunning. The scales are very cleverly done. Don’t ask questions just let her be creative. Give her clever creativeness a positive outlet without the constant push me pull you of your relationship coming in.

I do understand how hard it is being lied to like an idiot. I really do. But stick at it. This is something both of you will need to learn how to handle.

Peartree ( and everyone else) , thank you so much for your advice!! It makes so much sense and helped calming my anxious brain as I confess thst I thought I was failing as a parent.

I spoke to the school, I asked for small changes to be made, i.e seating plans, I changed from school dinner to packed lunch to avoid anxiety about getting food from the cafeteria, I wrote an agreement between my daughter and I and she helped me setting up the terms and conditions, the rewards and small consequences, my side of the bargain was to remain calm and give her more time to explain, her side was to try to tell the truth, consequence was going to bed 15 miniutes earlier , nothing major . Is she still telling small lies? Absolutely. But yesterday when she was telling me something about a friend I said your friend will not get in trouble with me so I would appreciate if you tell the real facts about what happened, then straightaway she told me the truth( I already knew the whole story as the friend's parents had given me the heads up). But it took seconds for her to change the story to the truth and I was very proud of her for it. Things did improve massively at . She managed to get first place amongst 800 students for an award she had her eyes on from the beginning of the term. I kept encouraging her saying you can do this, everyday before leaving the house, I will stand behind her in front her mirror and ask her to say words of encouragement to herself. Obviously I said it didn't matter if she wasn't the first place, we loved her just the same. She told me mum, it feels so good to be doing well, can you help me not getting in trouble again? Oh it melted my heart. I told her she's getting better in telling the truth, I said I know sometimes it's hard and scary. I have a very close family friend and we agreed that when my AD feels like she wants to say something that she is worried about telling me or the teachers, she can tell my friend instead. My AD was happy with this option.

I know it is the calm before the storm, no doubt about it. But for now, I'm actually just riding the peaceful wave.

Thank you all so much for your support xx