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I've pm'd you white Christmas.

We found that with our girls , lots of verbal encouragement helped. Also both became quite teary at times and needed cuddles from us. We did a lot of hands on support talking about what we were doing and guessing aloud what baby was feeling. Both our girls were teens and have similar issues to how you describe your daughter. I pointed out baby's nose and showed how small the nasal passage is and how important to make sure nose does not get covered. Also lots of " when you were little, you really liked this" and a lullaby, nursery rhyme or jiggling about when baby cried, followed. We have a good and loving relationship with the four littlies in our lives ranging from almost 9 to a toddler. We made sure we did not take over but kept a supportive role. Johanna x

AD came to us just before 6th birthday so I do not have anything to say about babyhood from experience but we are very hands on and encouraging. If we are too hands on though, I know that she will relinquish responsibility. At the moment she is trying to get me to take her off site for a break which is not allowed until discharge so she is getting pretty desperate to escape being trapped with baby. She is pulling away because she is afraid that baby will reject her. Ad's trauma and feeling of rejection by BM are ever present.

Have sent pm Johanna x

White Christmas I’ve been wondering how things are.

Madrid there was a post from White Christmas on the 'Challenges of adopting an older child thread' yesterday. Just in case she doesn't see this for a while there is some news there. It sounds very difficult :-(

Larsti Thank you. I didn’t know it was there. Truly heartbreaking.

We are currently hoping that our AD does not win her appeal against her section this Thursday by presenting better than she is actually. She is still the supreme actress when her back is to the wall. If she is discharged then she is in danger of self destructing. We have no powers and are not her nearest relative now under the law. We are getting support from post adoption for ourselves which is holding back some pain as we have to deal with realities and adapt. However I don't know how's long we can keep watching the unfolding mess, trying to keep our AD afloat but having no real influence over her traumatised brain. We may have breathing space if things go ok on Thursday as AD could improve on her section and perhaps be well enough to commit to a mother and baby unit, but only if she fits the criteria and only if she can commit to anything from her impulse driven anxiety fuelled brain. Thank you for your thoughts.

((hugs)) White Christmas It is hard - sadly we are on a similar path, though a few weeks behind you. At the end of the day, we have to look after ourselves too. I know we did the best we could for our kids....but we can't undo the stuff we have no control over.

White Christmas I don’t understand how you are no longer considered her next of kin. I presume this is because she’s now married? Agree with friend Bop. This is a scenario that none of us were trained for and never mentioned during initial adopter training, nor any subsequent training courses.

"impulse driven anxiety fuelled brain" - so totally get this. It's heartbreaking. Hugs and prayers and thoughts, please please keep looking after yourself White Christmas xxx

I am trying to help myself. Tonight during visiting, AD launched a vitriolic attack on me, sustaining it for a few minutes whilst I said nothing in response because how can you respond to an ill daughter who is beginning to believe she is her birth mum? I tried not to take in the words but my brain is going to be processing them when I try to sleep. Anyway, I calmly said I was going to leave the room for a little while because of verbal abuse and that I would be back soon. When I returned ten mins later she accused me of abandonment when she needed me most and that if I did it again she would self harm. I managed to distract her as baby was brought in by her partner at that stage though she was also verbally aggressive to him but not so intensive. I left after an hour saying that I was going to an exercise class to alleviate some stress and that she should try to dance in her room to the music she had created today. She kissed me goodbye and I went to the Zumba class. I managed to dance and cry at the same time. I think that I will ask for support tomorrow when I visit as I am struggling with her extreme illness. By the way I am not her next of kin, her partner is ( anyone over 18 who has co habited for more than 6 months) then of course the baby is second in line but not giving an opinion yet! Thank you all for your kind concern as it matters that you understand the chaotic world that she has unwittingly and unknowingly dragged us into, a reflection of her chaotic mindset. Please God let her be cared for under section for longer as I cannot keep her safe on the outside. If I was a doctor I might have believed all the comments she made against me as they sounded so certain and logical. I must hope and pray that the tribunal panel see through her statements. She believes she is well!

Completely understand your feelings and TOTAL RESPECT for how you handled such a tense situation WELL DONE.

Just sending hugs. Johanna xx

Also completely in awe and of the way you handled yourself. That must have been so hard. Your whole situation is just so heart breaking. Take care.

Just heartbreaking. Look after yourself xx

White Christmas Can you contact the Chair of the Panel and explain to them? As you’re the one who knows her best I think you should be heard. I’m so sad to read all this and I hope you have someone close who is supporting you.

Saying a prayer for you, your daughter and her baby Love Larsti x

Hopefully the panel will see through it all - don’t forget they are very experienced and will have seen it all before (in some aspects at least) - and she has been under psychiatric supervision so there will be experienced medical opinions too. Maybe you could prepare a statement (if you sign it in front of a solicitor it holds more weight) and submit it to the panel. I think it’s a good idea to ask for support for yourself when you visit today as you suggest - you need to work really hard to take care of yourself too - you seem to be doing really well in an unimaginably difficult situation. Hope it goes better today - though having said that it’s at least evidence of how bad things are when it doesn’t! Could you also speak to her doctor today? Much love - take care x