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Is this what 5 year olds are taught now?
Sivier
May 17, 2013 20:10
Can any teachers, or parents, enlighten me?I''ll confess I don''t know a lot about school and teaching (my AD is 4, and I don''t have any other children) and have not been in a classroom for many years, but....Last week I went and sat in the Reception class where my AD has a place to start in September. It''s a good, very popular state primary with a reputation for being a very nurturing school (good) with high academic achievements (good, but less important to me) - there is a considerable ''well to do'' element in the wider catchment area (though not us!) and achievements are high. It''s our nearest school. Anyway I wanted to observe an hour or so of Reception teaching (without AD), to help my AD with transition in the autumn. I was quite shocked at what the children, aged 5 or even some of them 4 were being taught - it seemed very advanced. They were doing ''Mind Maps'' to learn how a story is structured, talking about characters and needing a beginning, middle and end of the story. They had ''Plan, Do and Review'' sheets... They did a 35 minute session on phonetics and spelling, writing on their little whiteboards, doing little sentences like ''the cat met the man'', being told the official word was for a double 11 or ff....(I can''t remember it myself!). The teacher said that session was to designed to deliver to government targets, but is this kind of thing representative? It seemed a little, well, joyless.... I appreciate was only there for an hour and a half so obviously only got to see part of the day. But I also felt the children were constantly ''corrected''. Managing a group of 30 is obviously hard work, but does it really matter whether they are holding their whiteboard in their lap or the floor. Really? They are 5 years old! There seemed quite a bit of pressure to conform, be very polite. My AD responds quite well to structure - but this seemed like a LOT of structure.Just curious about other people''s experiences and as I say, Im probably out of touch, so happy to be put right. Thanks for any thoughts.
Monkey Magic
May 17, 2013 20:26
I can confirm that our LO, in Reception, does a lot of writing on a whiteboard with a black marker - as most of it comes home on her school sweatshirt!I think that Government targets are high on the agenda. For example, our LO can't tell blue from green, nor tell you the name of a baby duck but can read "the cat met the man" because that's what the sessions seem to concentrate on.Can't help any more - sorry.MMx
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Angelgirl
May 17, 2013 20:34
Hi there,I'm afraid that this is quite representative of Reception and Year 1 classrooms within my experience. The pace in the Year 1 classroom where I do a bit of supply teaching is unbelievable!! Many of them are still 5 and not that much older than my dd. In Reception the expectation builds up over the year and so the first term until Christmas may not be so full on.It is, quite frankly, very worrying but the government targets are high and the pressure keeps on going lower and lower down the school.We thought that we had found a nurturing school and I think it was more nuturing than most but the pressure has affected all schools and it's hard to find one that will put emotional wellbeing above performance.If your LO distracts from the teaching and disturbs others (like our dd did!!)many schools just haven't got the patience or the resources to copeI really hope this school can support you and your LO when they start.A xx
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Milly
May 17, 2013 20:36
Best practice is to have a play based curriculum with indoor and outdoor areas. There may be a few whole class sessions eg for story time, short teaching sessions, phonics (about 15 mins long) and maybe guided reading (15 mins max). This is what we do where I teach anyway. But majority of time self selected structured play activities. I think your instinct is right - it sounds much too formal. Maybe look at other schools?
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pluto
May 17, 2013 21:08
Poor, poor children.And than to think that when they are around 12 their scandinavien counterparts have fully catched up while they have never written or read a letter until they are 7 years old.
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xanthe
May 17, 2013 21:55
The school ours go to follows the Scandinavian system as much as possible and they do lots of play and learning through play in key stage 1. The structured forced learning you describe is carried out in other local schools for this age range. The results for the school ours go to are very good by the time the children leave so they do not miss out by not following such a rigid timetable. Our children as it happens aren't academically very able so a rigid leaning environment would be a nightmare for them and they would be really miserable. At least the learning through play allows them a childhood and a chance to be happy.
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rappit
May 17, 2013 22:39
your question pretty much sums up why I decided to home educate my 2 from the start (now and 7 and 5) its the exact opposite of what i believe 4 and 5 yr olds should be doing...which is play play play! mine would not cope with such rigid structure as that..they are bright and pretty normal kids but a little immature for their ages which i'm fine with..but it means school would absolutely not have been right for them at 4/5yrs old. rappit
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inthishouse
May 18, 2013 07:20
Hi Sivier. The scenario you describe does sound quite full on. My son is in reception and a lot of his learning is done through play. To the point at the begining I was concerned he wouldn't learn anything yet he is learning to read and write really well! Plus having lots of fun. The thing that really concerned me though is the size of the class you sat in. Ours is only 20. That must make a huge difference too. Do you have any other schools around you can visit to compare with?
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bovary
May 18, 2013 09:34
I'd agree, I found my child's reception class did a LOT of play-based learning, and even in Year 1. Emphasis on learning how to be a pupil, so they want kids to learn how and when to sit quietly and listen too, but lots of free play and guided play, indoors and out.DS's school uses Read Write Inc as its reading method, so lots of phonics stuff, but all through different media - writing on whiteboards but also in sand, in chalk in the playground etc., and lots of topic-based stuff - in Reception it was pirates at one point, so the kids built a massive pirate ship den in the outside area, it was fab and they spent loads of time in it.Your child's school does sound very formal, and your gut instinct tells you it's too full-on, and I'm a great believer in mum's gut instinct!
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Bellybug
May 18, 2013 13:55
HiI would echo what other posters have said; our DD is also in reception and her school appears to focus far more on play based learning that the school you visited. They do phonics sessions, but a lot of the other learning is based around topics. For example they recently ran a stall selling eggs from the school chickens which helped with their maths skills. They also had to design a very simple game to that they could explain other children and was played at their "County Fair. " attended by Year 1. My DD is learning and is happy. Prior to this she spent a short period of time in a private school reception class, which was very formalised and she was extremely unhappy. Our DD doesn't have the longest attention span, and found the private school far to stresful. It obviously depends on the individual child, but more emphais on play based learning certainly suits our DD.Best wishesBellybug
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Sivier
May 18, 2013 20:41
Thank you for all the replies. It's so helpful to have your experience and perspective on this.Milly, bovary, yes you are right, it's troubling me. I think I may have burnt my bridges though. There is another good little school near us but the application deadline has passed and I've accepted the place in the first school. The other school is also pretty oversubscribed (and the class sizes quite large too). But I'm going to look into it.Also complicated by the fact most kids on our street of her age are starting at the school including one of her few good friends and I/we would have a little network there (no family nearby). She would be very puzzled (upset) as to why she's not going to school with all of them. But that's workable with. Seeing it in practice I'm just staggered at what reception kids are being asked to do, I agree with Angelgirl that it's really worrying. My LO would probably cope with the structure quite well but I don't want to add to her worries. I'm not sure she'd distract, but she tends to internalise then stress comes out in tears and anger. I'm really anxious about this. I'll mull a bit more, and talk to the other school. Thanks so much for sharing thoughts.
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freddie2
May 19, 2013 10:24
I have made huge mistakes with my ads schooling...she is only 5 and is now in her third preschool/school! But I feel that I have finally got it right.Personally I would trust your gut instincts. My ads current school is quite a good school academically but more than anything it is truly nurturing and it really embraces children with special needs. This flows down from the head who is so kind and inclusive. The staff largely all reflect her in their approach and this is working wonders with my ad. My ad really struggled at her old two schools which were private and quite pushy academically. My ad couldn't cope with the pressure and so acted our to the extent the school thought she may be autistic. Those behaviours have gone away at the new school she feels nurtured and is less stress and anxious.Don't get me wrong, she still has her issues (terrible concentration Etc) but she is a much happier child.They are quite firm within the classroom, and the behaviour of the kids is great, but they are fundamentally very caring and also extremely positive with the kids.Most of the kids within reception can form all their letters and are beginning to write the words you describe. But am not sure how long the lessons are. 30 mins sounds like quite a long time to me. I think most of my ads lessons are 15 mins or so, but I may be wrong.In terms of school, entrance you should get top priority being a previously looked after child so I would use that to your advantage. Personally I would visit other schools as coma parable s and then go with your instincts. Good luck x
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Pear Tree
May 19, 2013 12:59
Pip is in year r and yes she's taught phonemes and sentences and list making and even 3D shapesShe loves it as its all done with a sense of play.They have got a pet shop in their play corner and all the reading writing and numbers is tied up around that topic.Earlier in the term they had chicks hatching in class The pace of learning I think is astonishing and its moved on even in the10 yrs since blossom was that age.It's a largely middle class area here and they have a fairly high amount of yummy mummies...I would have loved pip and the older 2 to have done Montessori education at primaryBut it's not available.I would, having had my time again, taken blossom out of school for afternoons at least But we were told it was best to get them into school and into "normal life" ASAP.... It was so wrongPip is my bc and I think she's on the bright end of average. Tbh my big concern is that she enjoys learning. Learns about playing and friends and relationship People round here think a pushy school is a good one.I'd prefer a caring one that goes at the children's pace more but as you say there aren't many choices in actual fact.Pear tree
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Mummamoo
May 19, 2013 19:38
In Year R children should still be following the Early Years Foundation Stage (EYFS) curriculum. You can find out about this online.I would consider what you describe as way too formal and advanced. I would be concerned! You could ring your LA to discuss your concerns and ask about applying to a different school.
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Sivier
May 20, 2013 13:41
Thanks PT, Freddie2 and mummamooOkay, an update. I've arranged to go and sit in a reception class at the other local school (school B)They said I might not find too much differences in the curriculum and delivery, and were very positive (diplomatic!) about the other school, pointing out some things about it that might help AD, but that I was more than welcome to go and observe their own class. They have an excellent nursery where my AD is now (with some of her peer group from our street, though that group are mostly going the school closest to us where I've accepted a place). The Deputy Head (also the SENCO) of school B has been a foster carer - gets hypervigilance, gets controlling behaviour. Their classes are smaller (23 or 24) and they have space if I change my mind. Even knowing all that and the conversation with the SENCO has helped me. Thanks Freddie2 for admitting your own chopping and changing, and that it's not just me! I am quickly earning the Most Indecisive Mummy of The Year Award.
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kstar
May 20, 2013 23:52
No no, I think it's the Mummy Who Realises How Important the Choice of School Is Award... Nothing wrong with being indecisive when your child will spend their formative years in the care of these people!
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DCO
June 2, 2013 19:37
Sivier, even though you have accepted a place at school A, you can at least go on the waiting list for school B and your little one should go to the top of the list, with a LAC or Adopted status.You might find that you get offered a place before September if a place becomes available. I work p/t in an infant school office and there is invariably some children who don't take up the place offered, so those at the top of the waiting list get offered places instead.
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Sivier
June 4, 2013 15:50
Thanks DCO, that's really helpful. I did find the classs in school B Paced more gently, and it is smaller. I'm still mulling though I know I need to move across very soon if I'm going to. One reason why I'm hesitating is AD's peer group - almost all the children in our street (lots of houses, nice community, in and out of neighbours' houses kind of street etc) go to school A (with at least 5 kids in AD's year starting recep at school A this Sept). I'm concerned as we've worked hard on developing her sense of permancy and place, it would be quite noticeable to her that she's the 'odd one out' in terms of school if you see what I mean. I think she could take that quite hard. Just one of the extra layers of the possible emotional impact of our decisions that us adoptive parents have to weigh up....!
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Myum
June 5, 2013 20:46
Just a thought - what about flexi-schooling, i.e. going less than full time, to take some pressure off?My understanding is that the school has no obligation to offer this as an option, but it is a totally legal way of educating any child.Sounds like she's got a strong supporter in you, whatever happens - that's got to be the most important thing.
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Sivier
June 10, 2013 12:57
Just wanted to update on my original post (I might be talking to myself here but I sometimes see posts where someone has a dilemma and wonder what happened in the end...)So -we have decided that our daughter wil stay at the school where she's been going to nursery, who have a more relaxed, play based approach and most importantly 'get' my gorgeous, bright, 'quirky' and not straightforward little girl! (the SENCO/DH/nursery teacher is an ex foster carer, she understands attachment etc). So we've said no to the other local 'outstanding ofsted' school that a lot of local parents would cut their arm off to get into. I just felt that it was too structured and formal. I realise that I never quite felt connected with it, partly because I don't think they really get the issues we're dealing with. I am sleeping much better now....! Thank you to those who took the time to reply, and for reminding me that it's so important to listen to instinct when choosing schools.
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