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I’d have liked to see Dan Hughes!

Hi Safia, it was a decent webinar, actually, not earth shatteringly brilliant, but maybe because I’m 13 years in, I’ve heard it all, seen it all, done it all. In saying that, I mean no disrespect to Dan Hughes, maybe more a recognition that I’ve read and digested his materials so often that the text is so familiar to me, that nothing surprises me. I found that very comforting, actually, as it reassured me how far I have come as an adoptive parent, albeit a very flawed and struggling one.

To be honest, I preferred another very recent webinar by another expert, which to my mind proves that, as selective and (probably flawed) human beings, we find resonance in messages that appeal to our egos/particular ways of doing things. And that (if I’m being cynical) there are so many so-called experts on adoption who are making a living from not living with traumatised children 24/7. Shoot me now.

(Also, I was a little underwhelmed by how Dan Hughes answered a specific question I had: after you’ve shot me, burn me at the stake as a heretic).

I guess my main take-out from the webinar is that if we trust ourselves enough that we are the experts in our own children. And does anyone else here ever feel that the adoption industry/business is a bit like the Emperor’s New Clothes?

I know what you mean about knowing something so well (the theory anyway) - but sometimes the value of training is in showing you how much you know already. I don’t know how I miss these things - I guess because I never look at the website just at the forums! I would never shoot you down as a heretic - theory is all well and good but if it’s not applicable to your situation in some way you take it in - it’s there at the back of your mind - but you look for something that’s more immediately useful. I’ve read so much in my time and it’s been great in helping my understanding and a general approach but not always great with the specifics practicalities. My favourite is Bryan Post and I once wrote him an email about my sons situation with school etc and got a really lovely reply that made me cry - no actual help in terms of what to do but did reinforce that my understanding of the situation was spot on! You need a real expert on the ground to be a real help and they are few and far between

And therapeutic parenting is damn hard!

Yesi agree with you both. I am 13 years in too and over the years I have read so many books on adoption and attachment, - the primal wound, from fear to love, life long search for self, inside I am hurting, to name but a few as well as lots of books on ADHD and Asd. I have found that lots of these books are heavy on the theory but very light on practical strategies. When my daughter is having a screaming tantrum,/meltdown and is throwing heavy things, kicking doors do hard that they crack, screaming and swearing,, running around the house, hitting her younger brother and when this is kept up for hours,- I don't need to know why she is doing it but how to make it stop in that instant.

The only books I have found truly helpful have been from a non-expert- Sally Donavon. Someone who knows what it is to live it 24/7 and gives lots of practical tips. These boards were also so important in that too - practical advice from people who had been through it all as well.xx

Just to add, one other thing that I don't like is that all these attachment experts seem to fail to acknowledge that a child's difficulties may be down to other things as well. My daughter has ADHD and I know that had I gone down the attachment route to begin with she would never have been given that DX and access to the meds which quite frankly have kept our family together. So what I find upsetting is that there are parents struggling with horrendous behaviour believing that it is all attachment related when in fact it is not. Both parents and children end up being failed. I am not saying that attachment problems are not important or relevant but just that they may not explain everything. Just my view anyway. Xx

Fantastic response furcifer I felt exactly the same as you & could have replied likewise 😥 ....

Sadly these boards are deserted even of my & others 13 years in therapeutic parenting exp .. not to mention the heroes who helped me who were already living the dream & coping with the issues I now have had to manage in spades...Sally is a very wise one & echos much of the guru Richard Redington &:Dan himself.... Sadly much auk archive posts have been long lost....

I still check in here regularly & am astonished at how backward things here have become... very new adopters who still wish for those long lost wise ones.... as we all know it really is only old hands who live it 24/7 who can truly observe & comment from some of their own darkest of experiences.... as we all know our children are magicians & brilliant at pretending around other adults they 'comply & 'fit in' thus ensuring that we parents are never believed 😠 .....

I wish Simon et all much luck with their young children I really hope they are as wise as they appear in their posts!!

Missing You All xx

Xx moo xx

Absolutely Windfalls. Even longer in the tooth here - 19 years plus - and only one out of three is neurotypical. I spent far too long with middly assuming all his issues were trauma and attachment related. They weren’t. He was dx adhd at 6 and ASD at 9. It was those diagnoses that got him support, into the right school etc - that’s not to say that trauma and attachment isn’t in the mix but it certainly is nowhere near the most important issue.

When it came to my daughter, we were fortunate in that an EP and private therapist both spotted autistic traits - ones that I’d missed because they weren’t the same as my son’s. She was dx at 7.

Of the three my eldest has probably struggled more with attachment - placed at 5 months, removed at birth, not the best fc experience and me, a totally inexperienced first time mother. He’s in uni now doing forensic psychology and police studies and can now see his struggles from a more educated and clinical POV. We have some interesting discussions 😂😂

So right - it’s the mix that makes it so complicated - MH / trauma / attachment and learning difficulties / disabilities - that’s what takes so long to unravel and needs very aware experts on the ground. And why the old boards were such a wonderful life saving resource. So often someone would read a post and spot some particular feature which resonated with them because of their child’s diagnosis which then gave the poster something to look into. I’ve never asked any specific questions myself but got so much information - and book recommendations and suggested services - as well as practical hints and strategies through reading other people’s. I would never have know what angles to pursue otherwise - professionals are only really helpful when you’ve got some idea yourself what is happening and what help you need I think.

It was actually reading your posts many years ago Donatella that made me realise that other stuff may be going on with my daughter. Also the info on how many cahms see only attachment with adopted children made me stay away from them like the plague leading to dx's for ADHD, ASD and dyslexia. Without your advice and the advice of all the others on the old boards and those that still post now , we as a family would be in such a different position than we are now.

So thank you all so very much!!xxx

Giving you s walrus Donatella!!! Xx

Hallelujah! It’s been so tumbleweed here for too long! It’s great to have a lively discussion again, like in the olden days, before the current status quo of bland, anodyne postings praising AUK to the hilt. I honestly began to despair that the Thought Police had taken over the boards forever.

You have all touched on something that’s been niggling away at me for some time; that heady cocktail mix of different diagnoses and how out of touch many so-called/self-professed experts appear to have become. Like Donatella says, it’s not all about attachment and I’m honestly not seeing the therapists/authors keeping up with the changing landscape of adoption in terms of FAS/FASD.

My eldest DD has a diagnosis of neo-natal abstinence syndrome (only took 12 years to get it! And that because it was recognised by her eye consultant!). I have a weird situation where school etc treat her as severely disabled (she has a profound disability due to her in-utero experiences) and the therapists etc treat her as attachment disordered. And it seems that never the twain shall meet. Nobody ever seems to want to treat her as an adopted, attachment disrupted young person with a physical disability, all of which has caused her great mental anguish. Because they all seem to pick up on the bit of the narrative that best meets their agenda/funding stream criteria.

And now I have accidentally ‘reacted to post’ by giving a thumbs up to my own initial posting like some egotistical, Trumpomaniac. 🙄. Honestly, I do not come here to be ‘liked’, I come here to engage in critical thinking and honest discourse on adoption and to enjoy discussions about our shared experiences.

I am so with you... constant battle from experts ' oh must be attachment' no never cannot be ADD/ADHD or anything else too just attachment disorder due to early traumas etc grrrrrrrr 😈 soo tired 😫 where are the hip up to date profs...after all these years of battles 😴 🙄 Bring on the discussion xx

Ha Ha trumpomanic.... hilarious 😆 🤣 😂 😄

Xx moo xx

It is good to see a discussion again. Donatella's posts to look at other things was the thing that got us researching. We thought ASD and possibly ADHD but it took a battle to get a referral to CAMHS and from there ADHD and finally ASD and now they have added GAD.

Getting the diagnoses has helped my understanding and linking with parents experiencing similar behaviour. I agree that suggestions from others going through the same experience is better than experts who don't understand and give general parenting advice.

Finally like the walrus!

Amazed no-one else saw this or has commentated 😢 back in the good old days the discussion gossip would be 'alive & jumpin'

Odd how times they are a changin' 😲 🙀

Xx moo xx

They certainly are moo. It is so sad.xx

I am brand new, are any of ye olde timers still here? :) I love a lively forum as much as i love its successor the whatsapp community!

I am very much enjoying the adoption passport training modules with factsheets on adoption leave that were updated in 2014 :P

Hopefully there are some of you still out there! I noticed a really helpful post in 2023 from chestnuttree with some good resources which i am now trawling through :)

Peace! x

Hi SJ & DA - glad you're enjoying Passport. There are tons of other resources on our website and in our lending library - do let us know if there's anything in particular you'd like us to signpost you to.