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I have no direct experience, but wanted to give you a virtual hug (0) as I find my boy's occasional outbursts and lack of coping with when things don't go his way really hard. It must be so wearing, and really hard for your BCs too to have it on a regular basis. I hope that someone comes along who has more experience that can maybe advise you, better than I can. I wondered whether her behaviour been lifelong or has it gotten worse as she's grown? Do you feel the medication is working for her - it's ADHD medication, isn't it? so I guess she has been diagnosed as such? How is school for her, does she manage there and does she have other support needs? Could the Adoption Support Fund help in any way (you probably get it at school already). Others might be able to advise if you can get DLA (or the equivalent). Sorry for so many questions - it's just trying to get a bigger picture. But most importantly - do you get any ongoing assistance with her - and any respite, or a chance to do something for yourself? Hopefully someone could advise you on ways to pursue these things. I am sure you are doing a magnificent job, parenting four kids is a major and amazing undertaking. It's just so hard when you feel like you're not getting anywhere. I have found it hard to become close to my AD for a long time after we adopted and I understand the guilt that goes along with that. But remember you are doing your very, very best under difficult circumstances. I could suggest that you find time to do things with just you and your AD to try and help your bond, but you have probably been there and bought the t-shirt! Take care, Haven xxx

Hi, Ruthh-s - You sound like a great mom! Sounds like you've fought and fought for you daughter, getting her all of that support. Fantastic parenting! Did any of these professionals do a sustained piece of work with your daughter? We got to the point where we worked out that the placement wasn't working for our son, and it was damaging to his siblings as well. We were a bit dull so probably worked that out rather later than we should - but when you're dealing with the behaviours all the time it's difficult to step back and see the bigger picture. The day to day stuff, for us, was so intense that we were just firefighting all the time. Our solution was that we asked for our son to be accomodated by the local authority under section 20 of the children's act. It happened, but was a fight and got quite nasty as times. For us, it was things like our other children witnessing domestic violence (my son on my wife) and having to live with unreasonably high stress levels. To us, that was affecting THEIR mental health. And our son probably should have been placed on his own: he just couldn't cope with family relationships.

Hi We have older AC & younger BC. The stress and trauma living with blossom in particular has been damaging to our birth child. Thing is, at the time you just try and crisis manage as best you can. In our case we realised even with 1:1 blossy couldn't manage family and she moved to live in a therapeutic community (health funded). Eventually she became s20. It's very ugly all of this, not one bit what they tell you at the start. Despite the pain to us it's been the right thing to do. Our older adopted son began to put roots down here and for all his vulnerabilities and 'stuff' he's much more together

I'm sorry to hear things are so hard. We also have four kids, two BC and two AC, and I know how fraught life can be.... just with 'normal' stuff going on, let alone the additional challenges adoption can bring. Our older AD, now 12, sounds very very similar to your daughter, I especially recognise the default response of anger and abuse. I am not sure I have any answers, we've tried Concerta XL and it didn't make a jot of difference, and are now considering atamoxetine. We are also in the early stages of a year's worth of DDP therapy, funded via the ASF, and although we are hopeful this may bring some improvements, it's not a magic wand and it's also a slow process... there are many days when it's hard to hang onto hope, and many days where I don't even want to be in the same room as her, let alone the same family... I have worked out that MY stress response is flight not fight! So don't beat yourself up too much about how you are feeling, just try to take life one day at a time. Do you have anyone who can give you respite - an aunty or a grandparent or a friend? Those moments are lifesavers for me, and for my relationship with our other children, who often suffer due to the overwhelming nature of DDs issues. Make sure you take as much time for yourself as possible, and prioritise time with your BC when AD isn't around. Divide and conquer seems to be the only type of parenting that works for us. Hugs from me, sorry it's rushed xx

I am overwhelmed by your responses. thank you so much for taking the time. We are currently on a course of therapy through the adoption support fund . Three months in, with a psychologist who specialises in attachment, lots of theory, and yes i understand why she may behave the way she does, i get all of that, but there's NO CHANGE !! I spend my days feeling guilty about the fact that like you chocoholic i actually avoid her. we are terrified by the teenage years which are just around the corner and the potential consequences her impulsive and immature behaviour will bring with it. My mother has her from time to time and i am really grateful for that but she behaves beautifully for nanny and i am left feeling that she feels that its clearly me who is the problem. my husband is very supportive and my AC behaves just the same with him as me, He works away and he does feel very guilty that he is not around more. I fear for the future , i am not sure where it is all going and particularly for my BC who may have to deal with her issues years after we have gone. A guilt filled and terrifying thought. ps i have been instructed by adoption uk that i have to change my user name . it will be something like pinkclanger - but its still me . i really value all your honesty and i send many many virtual hugs

Please dont berate yourself as being at fault compared with other people in her life. It is well documented that adopted children often have real problems with the mother figure, because of the original " abandonment"

sending you lots of virtual hugs too - i know exactly how you feel. My ad has adhd and odd (oppositional defiant disorder) as well as a host of other things and there are days when i don't want to be anywhere near her either. the meds do help though - she is on concerts xl as well. Just a thought, it has been mentioned on these boards before that the types of behaviours that you get with attachment problems are the same as you get with adhd. I think a lot of our children have both - and if adhd is the underlying problem then the behaviour won't change as it is caused by the brain waves being too slow - hence why the meds work as they speed the brain waves up and make them normal. Some professionals see only attachment problems with adopted children without exploring other causes such as adhd. for the meds to work though they do have to be at the right dose and if concerta not working at all then other meds can be used. I have heard that risperdone is very good at controlling violent behaviour - a friends son who has adhd and violent behaviour uses it. please also look at applying for dla and statement if you haven't already done so - may get them to fund a residential special needs school if this is appropriate. I also have two birth sons and the impact of my ad's behaviour puts a massive amount of stress on us all. would send you virtual wine but i think it might be a bit too early!!!! xx

temped by the wine... thanks x we are pursuing an ehcp (statement) at the moment but they assessed her on her literacy which is ok ish , they are going to reassess based on her numeracy which is poor. I am still not sure we will get it but we are trying to tap into all the help we can get.. She has a mentor at school through the adoption fund who states 'she has never had a moments problem' with my AC. She is ok on a one to one ( with people other than her family) for short periods and i feel guilty saying it but she has learnt how to play the game to get what she can out of the situation. The paediatrician we see thinks there is some adhd (from memory) but both equasym (which we were on preiously) and concerta xl dont seem to be doing anything. Food is also a major issue as she steals and hoards food constantly no matter what we say or do. She also has no regard for possessions and regularly steals (and then denies it ) If you met her she would come across as sweet and lovely and we do have some good times, but a life living on egg shells is not easy as you know. thank you all so much for listening as my husband and i have met with so many 'professionals' who nod in the appropriate places and do try to help but they dont really live it . I do feel better knowing there are other people out there who feel the same way that we do. I dont know about you but i really hate it when people find out we have an AC and tell me how wondeful i am, i dont feel very wonderful at all. xx have a good day everyone

try and push for an adhd diagnosis - if nothing else it will help in trying to access help - in my experience the more diagnosis you have the better. Has she been assessed by an ed psych for any specific learning difficulties? - thinking dyslexia as you mentioned problems with english and maths. also look at autistic spectrum disorders. there is a massive overlap in terms of behaviours with attachment and these other disorders. my ad is 9years old and came to us at 13months old. diagnosed with adhd and odd at age 6 by a consultant child psychiatrist at a private clinic which has a specific interest in adhd. we see the doctor every couple of months and every time we see her the school and us have to fill in feed back forms so she knows exactly how my ad's behaviour is. we then discuss whether or not her meds need adjusting or increasing or indeed changing. my ad had been on the meds for over a year and as she had made no progress academically we saw an ed psych (suggested by her doctor) who diagnosed moderate dyslexia which affects both english and maths. my ad's behaviour at school was still pretty bad despite meds and so we decided to move her to a specialist school for children with dyslexia. since she has been at her new school the change in her behaviour at school has been pretty amazing - the meds were controlling the adhd but her behaviour was due to her frustration at the dyslexia. have also had OT and SaLT assessments and she also has dyspraxia and communication problems. So please, if not already done so, look at other causes for her behaviour other than attachment as - our children do tend to be very complex and have co-existing conditions due to very poor genetics as well as birth parents substance abuse and also trauma suffered in the birth home. i really hope some of the above is useful and that you get some help soon - i couldn't deal with my ad's behaviour 24/7 without the meds in fact i think the meds is the reason why we are still together as a family - although meds not a cure and her behaviour is pretty horrendous at times and sometimes we are still hanging on by a thread. xxx

not saying that she doesn't have attachment problems , only that there might be a lot more going on besides.xx

Hi all, especially Pinkclanger. Just wanted to let you know that reading the comments on this thread has been so helpful to me. My wife and I have a 7 year old birth son and 5 year old adoptive daughter. No offence but it's not to do with the advice on here- we have had plenty of that from well meaning professionals and friends/family, which has on occasion been useful. It is just reassuring to hear that we are not alone in our experience. Our daughter has a toxic combination of brain injury, developmental delay and attachment disorder, which has (at times) torn our family apart. Thank you everyone for articulating the challenges we are facing.

Also sending some hugs pinkclanger!... I can relate so much to what you are saying; we have two BC and two AC, ranging in age from 5 to 9 years. i did start 'writing' some of our experiences but deleted it because I can't think of words to express how emotionally draining it is for all of us as a family but we just keep battling through. I truly hope life will throw some happiness your way. Take care xx

You are wonderful pinkclanger; not because you have an AC but because you are doing your best to be the best parent you can be whilst living with everything that comes with having a child that is 'damaged'. Xx

For some reason I have only just seen this thread. We have 3 BCs and an AC. One of the good things in our family is that the gaps between the children are large so 2 are grown up and not at home all the time and one is going to 6th form college in September and will be increasingly independent. We have worked hard from the very beginning to give youngest BC time with us, with her own friends, time alone, supported her activities. The fact that we can leave her at home alone, and have been able to do so for some time, has helped a lot. As far as AC is concerned, lots of problems here and I am sometimes very discouraged about it all. He has multiple issues and I would say the most support we have had has been of a 'special needs' variety. Short breaks subsidised by LA (short means 2 or 3 hours!) Paed is highly supportive. GP ditto. The things that have helped with our stress levels are home education (currently under review as it is from time to time) and being able to fund some things ourselves including a part time tutor, OT, therapeutic farming placement, one to one swimming lessons and most recently a referral to tier 4 CAHMS service. I suppose you could say we have taken control where we could, which reduces stress. Also I think it helps to accept that our children are never going to be 'fixed'. They have the best chance possible with us but as has been said, some of their problems are genetic so are not going to disappear. With the emotional stuff I think we as adopters are by far the most therapeutic thing that will happen in the lives of our children. That is why we must take self care extremely seriously. So maybe take a step back and focus on your needs, your DH's needs and BCs needs.

We could be living in the same household pinkclanger, sending you a big hug. Had a few tears tonight and our youngest BS has sat with me and told me bluntly to throw his younger AD sister out. She came yo us at 5 3/4 and is 18 at the end of this year. She has attachment and see has had therapy over the years. We have just got funding passed today for a psychologist which is out of the adoption find but to be honest I'm not sure it's too late. My 3 BC have to hide their money, purses, wallets etc as see regularly steals from them, she punches furniture, doors and hurts herself, she smokes, dabbles in drugs and gets into vulnerable positions with lots of boys. She is aggressive, rude, swears in our faces, has no respect or empathy. I'm sad that it has turned out this way and so scared she is putting herself in an unsafe position after every thing she has been through. She disappeared a few months ago and I had to involve the police and she has gold me tonight she's moving out because she hates us all, can't stand us and we are ruining her life. For our own sanity I think that when she goes despite it being devastating it will give our family time to heal. Who knows what the future holds bug if she continues down this path I dont see our lives being connected on a daily basis. When we adopted her our BC accepted her from day knew, they loved her and have had a rough deal with her behaviour over the years but now they are angry, angry that she is treating myself and hubby the way she is. X

Whoops, apologises for the spellings, blaming my iPad :)))

Whoops, apologises for the spellings, blaming my iPad :)))

HI everyone, not posted for a while but have read comments with a mixture of emotions. It is really good to know other people feel the way myself and my husband do (for ages i was beginning to believe those who know nothing and just judge you) but at the same time I am sad my situation seems so common . We have had some good days, days i momentarily feel there may be some light. I do wake up every morning and believe that day will be a good one. But we have had many bad days too. I am really struggling to know what to do with the food issue at the moment. My AC constantly takes cakes and biscuits and gorges on them . whenever our back is turned she can't resist the opportunity to take something and eat it for the sake of it. i find wrappers all over the place in hordes . i have actually five minutes ago uncovered another stash which included a coloured icing tube sucked dry !! She is of course given more than enough snacks and food to eat. Since her medication started her appetite for 'dinners' has diminished and she struggles to eat good food , unless its is pizza (she used to even eat out of the bin) however, she seems to just want to eat rubbish at any opportunity , even if she has eaten a good meal. I don't know what to do? i have tried explaining all about the issues with nutrition and growth and health, but like all other things , she seems to make the right noises and then does exactly what she wants five minutes later . Other problems are unchanged, she flairs up , she breaks things, she cuts up toys and thats not even when she is having a tantrum !! I don't want to bore you with too many examples as i am sure you all have many of your own, but i genuinely think nothing is going to work and the teenage years just ahead are going to be a nightmare. (just retrieved a Skype address and message details from the boy the year ahead whom she has been in contact with - probably innocently at the moment - despite the fact she knows she is not allowed to contact anyone because of previous issues. we have a session of something with her next week , some play thing or other but as usual she will perform and to some extent so will we, but nothing will change...... feeling very low...

Oh pinkclanger, I am so sorry to hear this - sending you lots of hugs. Is there any chance that you and your husband can get away for a short break - sounds like you need some distance from her to decide what you need to do. Perhaps it's now time to speak to post adoption support and find out what your options are if you've not already done so. Or perhaps speak to Adoption uk and see what they advise. this adoption path is not an easy one to travel along. Stay strong. xxx