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AC*

There are lots of posts about age gaps, birth/adopted children so I won’t repeat everything. Have a search for previous posts. In short, general consensus is bigger age gap the better. However I have three adopted kids with only a 4 year age gap between eldest and youngest. The age hasn’t been a huge difficulty. The issues they’ve presented with since placement are harder to manage. Do all adopted children come with additional needs? I guess that depends on how you define it. They’ve all lost a birth parent, usually one or more foster carer so all will have suffered a degree of trauma and loss. That’s inescapable. That’s not necessarily the only issue though. The majority of children coming through the system will come from birth families with long histories - drug and alcohol addiction, genetic issues, mental illness, a background of chaos, dysfunctional behaviour, neglect, abuse etc - often generational. There are degrees of difficulties of course. Some children will be easier than others. Some will be more resilient than others but it is an entirely different parenting experience. Your birth children presumably are securely attached. You know their genetics. You know about your pregnancy. You know you kept healthy. I’m assuming here ... that’s unlikely to be the case with an adopted child. Even an infant. A lot of harm is caused to a child in utero. I certainly have no regrets but two out of three easy to place Babies are now statemented, diagnoses ASD and in special ed. It’s not been how I imagined but there’s nothing wrong with Holland! Just not Italy!

Ps - you mention expensive? Does that mean you’re considering international adoption? You don’t pay for domestic adoption

Pps - when you say you’d love to hear some positive stories, how do you judge/quantify positive vs not a positive? What does positive look like to you? What would negative look like?

Thank you for your reply. It’s a lot to think about. We are spending this next year doing our research before we take the big step so I’m grateful for all first hand exp stories. This will be a big step for our family and we need to ensure that the child we adopt is the right one for us and that we are the right family for them. I hear horror stories of adoptive parents not being fully aware of the child’s background and what should be a happy joyous occasion turning into a scene from the exorcist. With regard to the process being costly. I assume that adoption comes with a huge legal bill. Solicitors/advisors etc... whatever professionals need to be involved. I’ve heard it rakes up thousands x

Positive story would be somewhere along the lines of...This was a good decision and everyone involved is happy and has benefitted in some way. Negative story would be full of heartbreak, guilt and regret x

Usually when people ask on here for 'positive stories' they actually mean 'I want to hear from people who haven't had many/any problems'. They do exist, but I havent met many and those I have actually have had problems but dont/wont interpret them as such. Most adopted children will have some degree of special need. That might be around education, health (physical or mental health, with mental health issues being more challenging in many ways) and behaviour - another biggie. So its not about saying 'We have young BC we want a child with no problems' cos no one without a crystal ball can guarantee you that and the likelihood is you will get exactly what you said you couldnt manage - Donatella got 2 with Autism! These are not children who have been nurtured from conception; many of their birth mothers will have abused substances with alcohol being fairly common (but you wont know cos they dont admit it to social care). They will be in stressful situations with abusive partners; this floods baby's developing brain with stress hormones which means the baby can be quite literally born with a short fuse for stress. Honestly if you want more kids and can have them, do that. Im an adopter with 3 x BS - 28, 24, 20 and AS of 12 who has been with me from 5 weeks old. Big age gap - absolutely; at least 4/5 years. These children will be NOTHING like your birth kids. Also anticipate that you may well be supporting adopted kids (and by extension their kids) well into adulthood.

There are no costs other than your medical if you adopt domestically. It only costs thousands if you adopting internationally. You have to get a realistic perception of what adoption might mean for you. Yes there are adopters who have had the most dreadful experiences. No one would deny that. But many of us bumble along, we have our ups and downs, sometimes its harder than others. Positive stories as opposed to negative comes up all the time. I think I have a positive story. My son is doing great. He is happy, enjoys life, has friends. He is doing really well at school, for him. He won't be going to university but he will get a handful of GSCEs which will get him to college and into employment. But he still has autism, a learning difficulty, sensory issues. A lot of grief and anger. Some challenging behaviour. But he is a battler, after a knockback he picks himself up and carries on, and keeps smiling. Thats what I call positive. Its all about your perspective. Having just seen your last post Heartbreak - loads of it Getting a nice new family doesnt take away their past. It grieves me that I can't take away his pain. Guilt - I wish I could give up work and be a full time mum, he doesnt get enough time with me, I'm too frazzled to be the mum I want to be Regrets - not one. He is my son. Adoption is a complex creature. Its not as black and white as saying Its all great, or its a total disaster. I think most of us occupy the various shades of grey in between

I’m not sure you’ll find many stories full of heartbreak and regret etc. But then I’m not sure it’s as black and white as you describe. We’ve had heartbreak, we’ve had some really difficult times. We’ve had years of involvement with a multitude of professionals - still involved 13 years in. Has it always been happy? Well no. But then I’m not sure any parenting experience is 100% happy. There are always ups and down in relationships especially as children get older. I have two teens and a pre teen. The mere fact that they’re teenagers means life is not always joyful! Personally I think we have all benefitted - I think my kids would say so too. But that doesn’t negate their trauma, their losses, their disabilities which are balanced by their abilities, their resilience, their strength ... I don’t think it’ll be one or the other. Not often it’s a mix of all the things you mention!

I grew up with children in and out of care. They were my friends as a child. So I have an element of understanding from that side. I’ve witnessed first hand what some children can go through. As an adult I’ve worked with children in care too. Some with severe needs and others not so. I still do. I know that their background will not be full of sunshine and roses. I know the vast majority are not neutered in the womb. But there must be some cases, somewhere in the world where the child has not come from severe abuse x

Nurtured*

depends what you mean by abuse. My son was not physically harmed or abused. But he was severely neglected. Children don't end up in care for no reason.

But that’s not what I’m saying. My kids were removed at birth or shortly after. That removal alone is a traumatic event. They’ve lost their birth mother. They’ll then go into foster care. Then they move on so that feeling of grief and loss is compounded. It’s not just about physical or sexual abuse. It’s more complex than that. Lots of bms abuser alcohol. You probably won’t know because they’re unlikely to admit it. That means that that child may be affected by fas/fasd to a degree. But even then it’s not that simple because you’d then need to consider why that bm was self medicating? What was underlying? My three didn’t come from severe abuse however they have still been impacted by their birth parents’ lifestyles, issues, difficulties.

Thank you so much for your replies, they are much appreciated. I know some families who have all BC and the whole family is pretty darn unhappy. So I suppose it depends on the type of people involved. You as human beings and the children involved. I’m quite a positive and focused person on the whole x

As are all of us here I’d say!

Yes that makes sense x

I think it depends upon your expectations and the level of risk you are prepared to accept. I was a single, older adopter and went into adoption as much wanting to make a difference to a child who might otherwise not be adopted as to satisfy my need to be a mother. I was matched with a child with severe behavioural problems and it has been tough. I now work for a third of my pre-adoption salary and life continues to be a battle. However, I have no regrets and my daughter has come a long way - she would be a very different person today if she had grown up in foster care, however good the foster carers. That's a positive story. I'm sure there are adopters out there who would say they have had few problems, but it's a gamble. The odds are stacked against you, and whilst you can try to minimise the risk, it's unlikely you will have a problem free child. Only you can decide what level of difficulty you are willing to accept, and whether the risk is worth taking.

Lots of good advice above. Adopting our two messed up kids is the best thing we ever did, it really is. On reading your posts, I feel that you do understand the issues but are hoping that somehow there might be a way to not have to deal with them. I think we probably all hoped that! Sadly, I don't think that there are any adoptees anywhere who unaffected by the processes that led them to be adopted - abuse (of whatever form) is just one factor among so many, as I'm sure you know. My two kids from the same family have reacted to their physical and emotional abuse/neglect/witnessing domestic violence in opposite ways - one is as compliant as they come and the other is very oppositional. As an adoptive parent who keeps in contact with a fair amount of other parents, I know of no adopted kids without some form of 'additional need' in the very broadest sense, and yes they do vary, but whatever is written about them, you will never know the true extent of it until that child is part of your family and/or at school. Adoption is taking a chance on a child - one who has been matched with you based on their needs, not so much yours and rightly so. Even if you were matched with a relinquished baby who miraculously has no in-utero issues - it's not simple. I know an adopted teen who was placed as a baby - she has been through a whole heap of difficulties and caused her family heartache. When I think of the adult adoptees I know who were relinquished as babies, they also have multiple issues that they have not been able to throw off - about loss, lack of self esteem, separation anxiety, the need to know where they came from - and again often incredibly rebellious as teenagers. I would echo the sentiment that if you could have more kids of your own, do that. if you can't, you really need to get your head around what having a child with additional needs (however mild or serious) might mean, whether emotional, social, behavioural, educational or physical, or a combination of them all. As you go through the application process, good social workers will make you aware and discuss what you can deal with (but there are no guarantees). You also need to think very seriously about what having a child with additional needs will mean to your birth children - an adopted child will be much more needy. Having said that, if I had my time over, I wouldn't change a thing, because they are so amazing, even with their additional needs that they are worth every bit of emotional heartache I went through (and still go through) to have them in our lives. best of luck, whatever you decide! xx

Hello. I have 2 AC who are now young adults and have a BC who is now 10. for a start, you are looking at it the right way round. Have bc before, ideally many years before AC is a better path to follow. There aren’t massive legal fees etc because on the whole the placing local authority meet those costs. Costs like time off for training, assessments, medicals, sitting for your other kids aren’t generally met. I have to agree with the others about the gamble modern adoption is. These are the only children in society that legally cannot return home. So yes they’ll have some issues. Some kids have massive problems from the get go. Some are ok in early childhood and just cannot cope into adolescence at all. Others bumble along with a few things going on. I know you can saw bc can have troubles. Yes they can. I think I read somewhere the chance of your bc having issues were 2% roughly but the chances of you having a child with extra needs who is adopted was massive. So it’s not ‘even odds’ at all I would like to possibly suggest that adoption issues will impact your existing children. It may cause them to get mh issues and absorb the trauma from their adopted sibling. As well adjusted kids from a stable family they might well be resilient to this but it will effect them. I carry some guilt around this with my bc being impacted by the trauma of living with her brother and sister, But. It has made her much more understanding, less judgemental and a really rounded child in ways I don’t see in her peers. The families that I’ve seen ‘do adoption best’ are ones where there’s often a large family, with plenty of support as there is less intimate connection required of the child and everyone has a set of roles to perform. Getting ready for school etc does need a process and there’s often at least one parent full time at home. Those are my observations I guess, but I think there’s sense behind them. Good luck whatever you decide