Edited 17/02/2021
Help pls - our AD has turned violent
adoptionp
May 7, 2017 08:43
Our 15yrs AD returned in Dec16 after 10 months of being in FC after disruption in Feb16 and court procedures of being accused of being bad parents by LA. We fought the LA as AD The day before the final hearing AD decided she wanted to live in care home, but we still persuaded at court for her return which she did. We did this for AD and half sibling who is fully attached to us (now 10). We have had attachment problems with AD from the onset when she came to us age 8 (back in 2009) but not half sibling (age 18 months). Reconnect Therapy from last May16 ends at of Jun16 and AD has never really engaged but we parents have found it useful. The sessions have been quite tense as AD has just got very angry in them and pre/post the sessions. Since returning AD has constantly being pushing us away with her behaviour, abused her phone privileges by allowing herself to be groomed but discovered in good time and increasingly being disruptive at school. Her very aggressive behaviour and constantly telling us for last six months she wants to leave home resulted in her turning violent yesterday when we tried to remove her MP3 player. We did this as she has been excessively aggressive for the few months (daily basis) which concerned us and so we self referred to SW yesterday, saying we were increasingly worried about her behaviour and the adverse mental impact it was having on the whole family. This did please AD. The SW dropped a note to Adoption SW who is due to see AD this week for her monthly visit. They said we did the right thing as we need to put some support plan in place. We were desperate as the mental impact it was having had reached crisis point for us as a Family. I normally 'playfight' with AD as it usually deescalate her anger but this time she just turned and started to punch and kick me, ripping my top. In an attempt after about 1/2 to calm her down, she went for me again trying to bite me, I did not react and had to restrain her down and then leave the room, again my top was torn. We are very shocked by this behaviour as something has triggered inside her, we are not sure if it is the school or therapy but we have never seen this in her as she gets older AD and bigger our concern is could she become violent towards her half sibling?? There is a school meeting scheduled next week which AD is included as they have some big concerns about her downward spiral towards schoolwork and behaviour. We know AD likes all adults discussing her negative disruptions. We simply do not know what to do?!! Were we wrong to dispute the LA who wanted to remain in FC? We were doing this for her but since returning it has been very difficult for her to accept our Parental boundaries and authority which has led to this crisis point. HELP PLS, ANY ADVICE?? WHAT DO WE DO, WE NEED TO MAKE SOME DECISIONS ON THE SUPPORT NEEDED. WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE, WE DO NOT WANT IT TO GO WORSE FROM HERE IF SHE REMAINS AT HOME, HER ANGER AND VIOLENCE COULD ESCALATE.....
adoptionp
May 7, 2017 08:48
sorry I was meant to say Reconnect Therapy ends this Jun17
Edited 17/02/2021
adoptionp
May 7, 2017 08:58
sorry another correction, ....'We did this as she has been excessively aggressive for the few months (daily basis) which concerned us and so we self referred to SW yesterday, saying we were increasingly worried about her behaviour and the adverse mental impact it was having on the whole family. This did NOT please AD'....
Edited 17/02/2021
pluto
May 7, 2017 12:58
Ones children are back in care it is unlikely they are able to live at home again. Your daughter got the chance, it does not work out, Now it is time to take a different direction and find a new place for daughter to live with the help of ss.
Edited 17/02/2021
Pear Tree
May 7, 2017 20:08
Hi. I think the playfighting in the circumstances is unwise. It clearly triggers for her. I'm glad to see sw is involved and seems supportive. If you feel in danger of assault you must ring 999 and get the police. They can remove your daughter to a place of safety. I don't understand the term 'disrupted' to me it reads like you're like any family with a child who has extreme needs (pre adoption related obvs). They went in fc for respite and now home. It's just not working as it is. Going forward you need to think about a plan with the professional group and your supports. nvr might help but it's not a quick fix. Might be worth a look
Edited 17/02/2021
adoptionp
May 7, 2017 20:39
Grandma was nominated person as part of the reunification 'safety' plan. She tried to talk to AD this evening. AD is still adamant she wants to leave and is acting like no care in the world. When quizzed by Grandma about behaviour at school and why she is not listening to teachers, her response was because I can and what is the point. In fact when my wife & I were talking in the lounge, AD quietly came and sat in the kitchen, my wife caught her on the side of eye and saw AD with massive grin on her face. We have had similar experiences just before she came back, and when quizzed why she did not say anything during the reunification assessment back in Oct/Nov, she said 'because FC was always present when SW was talking to me'. We think AD is enjoying the negative attention and exerting control........she is craving the disruption and resultant focus and actions by LA. We wonder how they will deal with it this time, will they point the finger or actually support a reintegration back into FC....
Edited 17/02/2021
Wizzywoo
May 7, 2017 21:01
I also feel playfighting is a no no esp with a 15 yr old child who as i remember from your previous posts is an extremely confused girl who has been at the centre of legal wranglings between yourselves and the la. If i remember rightly you are dad and are not only blurring the lines between acceptable and unacceptable behaviour but also leaving yourself open to all sorts of allegations. I am sorry to hear things are so bad for you all at present . Hope you get some support from ss asap
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Donatella
May 7, 2017 21:19
Thank you wizzy. You said what I was thinking. I have a 15 year old son and it would be entirely inappropriate for me to be playfighting with him. For all sorts of reasons. You have to find a different way of de-escalating. Maybe as much as you wanted her home, it isn't the right thing for her. Not all children can live safely and happily within a family. Time to rethink options possibly.
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adoptionp
May 7, 2017 21:30
All, Thank you. What us support group you mentioned? We really cannot go through another statutory assessment? We are asking for support, I have no idea if the LA have learnt anything about our from last year?.. They should be aware of AD stating she wanted to stay in care the day before final hearing. Surely they would be wrong to go through the whole process again. We are simply asking for support to deal with her aggressive behaviour, even school have big concerns about her downward spiral behaviour, but if AD at getting of 15 1/2 wants to live elsewhere and after a year of Reconnect Therapy what would be the point if she will simply cause greater disruption. As I speak now, AD is acting without a care in the world, excited at the disruption, attention from friend and no doubt distraction this will cause at school, we are almost playing into her hands; but what other option do we have if she does not want to be with us, what is the point of making her stay?...
Edited 17/02/2021
Pear Tree
May 8, 2017 01:15
Hi, just a quick note to say that I've read your post and my guess is AD thinks things are going to go wrong in the family and her go into FC/ Become LAC again so she's going to do it and on her terms. It's about surviving and she will feel angry empowered and a jumble of things at once. She's conditioned completely to survive the trauma of her past. Desperate for control over her situation she will make what to us seem rediculous poor choices. But to her make total sense 1) why do well in school when in a day or maybe a week you have to leave anyway? What's the use in even trying? I'm sh*t anyway and won't ever get anywhere in life so why prove To you all I'm crap by taking exams I'm going to fail anyway. 2) defensive cock sure behaviour is rude and awful to you but to her, well, she's having a pop before you decide to move her (I'm Not judging at all btw just wondering if there's a clash of perception.) My own experiences tell me that sometimes is isn't possible for some adoptees to manage in a family home. Once a young person starts the 'road to leaving home' it's impossible to stem the tide, but you can in some case alter direction. We have one example of each in Blossom and Partridge.
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pluto
May 8, 2017 11:13
I vaguely remember your posts from last year, It is not so much what the la has learned, more what they see, a family in crisis despite therapy. I think the la will take over now and find a permanent solution, that is not disruption but return to care, the adoption order is not undone but you loose a bit or eventually all parental responsibility (as I get the impression S 20 is no longer indefinite). I think there are bigger worries than school right now. I agree with everyone else, playfighting is a big no, no. Really as soon as children are past 7 or so. You do not want to measure strength, you can easily touch private parts unintended, etc. Safe caring is now very important, bathroom doors locked, no nudity, not going alone into her bedroom, not being alone with her etc. Did she made false allegations before? I'm not total sure.
Edited 17/02/2021
adoptionp
May 8, 2017 11:49
AD has make lies up before which the LA are fully aware of. She is not that nasty to make up serious allegations, the LA know this from past experience of dealing with her. The trouble is AD knows exactly how to play the system and SW. I spoke with AD this morning before school and asked if she was still adamant about wanting to leave and the reasons why. She said she just wants to, and even though she has felt better once returned it was something she really wants to do. If you recall, this was her view the day before the final hearing, at 4pm at FC she was spouting all kinds of hate at us and since returning she has been saying she was 'forced to return', has not engaged in therapy and constantly has been getting more and more aggressive, which is her indirect way of saying she wants to leave (i.e. causing disruptions). Since AD return, again she has tried to the boy online, made up lies at drugs she has been taking drugs and being generally disruptive in class (as she sees not point in working). It could be her anxiety of education but the her reactions to it is to cause disruptions in the way she knows best.
Edited 17/02/2021
adoptionp
May 8, 2017 11:59
AD (like her birth mum) is very strong minded and thinks she can do as she pleases (a victim of being in the care world for so long) and wants to continue in any family environment i.e. she struggles with boundaries which need to be there for her own protection. This is what makes her a vulnerable child. When things do not go her way, she does not engage and connect with parents/caregivers but causes disruption, she has many years of experience of this and it is getting worse as she gest older. What she sees as protective measures, AD sees as being caged in, as her rationale brain is underdeveloped - here lies the conflict and stress of being in a family environment. Because the issue is mental health, it is hard to detect and the 'expert' support is not there...the LA would rather spend money on accusing rather than on supporting the issues around past trauma of an adopted child. We shall see how they will support this situation....
Edited 17/02/2021
Fenwick
May 8, 2017 12:00
Remember your posts from last year.. I know you seemed sure that the LA were not supporting you enough as a family, but you were desperate to have your daughter home even though SS weren't sure it was the best time, and your wife seemed unsure also. I am sorry this has not worked. Our 15 yr old daughter wanted to leave us, and went into FC, following much unhappiness within the family and school. We were devastated at the time,but SS told us teenagers vote with their feet, and so she did. However, 10 years later, we have a reasonable relationship with her, and she is able to live independently. Sounds like your daughter wants to leave again. Let her go, but keep the door open on the relationship, if you possibly can.
Edited 17/02/2021
Fenwick
May 8, 2017 12:00
Remember your posts from last year.. I know you seemed sure that the LA were not supporting you enough as a family, but you were desperate to have your daughter home even though SS weren't sure it was the best time, and your wife seemed unsure also. I am sorry this has not worked. Our 15 yr old daughter wanted to leave us, and went into FC, following much unhappiness within the family and school. We were devastated at the time,but SS told us teenagers vote with their feet, and so she did. However, 10 years later, we have a reasonable relationship with her, and she is able to live independently. Sounds like your daughter wants to leave again. Let her go, but keep the door open on the relationship, if you possibly can.
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adoptionp
May 8, 2017 13:32
Thank you Fenwick We have said the door is open if she wants to return or visit. I agree it is hard to make someone stay if it makes her feel unhappy to do so. For her long term happiness it might be the best, we are not saying goodbye, we just want her to be happy and we thought last year that would be in the family. During proceedings last year we just never got a chance to have real open discussion with AD, nor the LA themselves as they were hiding behind the court process and were only willing to discuss during the advocates meeting (last July they just provided an update of their intentions and were not willing to talk with reasons why). The judge concluded that going forward we need to have an open and honest dialogue with the LA and since AD has been back, that is exactly what we have been doing, we have an excellent relationship with school who are more open with their concerns and we parents have had no concerns from raising issues with police and SS in order to protect AD. I think AD sees all this as a 'closing of the net'. Hopefully we can continue to ensure we receive the right support and outcome going forward for our AD. If she is to thrive in life, she needs to be happy wherever she is, we will support her in that.
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safia
May 8, 2017 13:41
The thing that springs out for me is "allowing herself to be groomed" - I don't think "allowing" is the right term for this - she is extremely vulnerable and the person doing the grooming is engaged in criminal activity. What can be done to protect her? There are specialist organisations which can advise here too. I agree school is an unimportant issue right now - she needs intensive help - mental health help - so push for that. It is quite possible she would be better off living somewhere else but its hard to say as she will feel rejected especially after you fought so hard for her return. What sort of help are you getting for yourselves? I don't mean SW help (though its good they are involved) but counselling / therapy or similar ideally from one of the specialist organisations - especially to discuss / advise / support you on how best to work with your daughter - it may help with unraveling the issues and identifying the triggers for you all as well as practical ideas and other options which may work
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adoptionp
May 8, 2017 13:59
Safia, We have been seeing a highly recommended psychodynamic therapist for about year through the Reconnect services provided by Barnardo's. We have a good relationship and contact through WhatsApp as well. The therapist was a LA SW for many years and now is a CAMHS mental health worker, she see us on Fridays for private work funded by ASF. Unfortunately Barnardo's are now not the main service providers but now changed to Quorum. AD though has not engaged really since onset and when left for an hour last Fri, she spent playing on therapists mobile phone. AD has not opened up and if anything the therapy while useful for us parents (and contributed to her return from last years lengthy court process), has been a stress and conflict for AD - she does not open up easily. There is very limited records from AD past prior to coming to us, as she was from diff LA (which post Adoption team SW is trying to find out but I think the doors will be shut based on Data Protection. I tried to find out myself back in 2010), and if there is, the current LA certainly have not been shared anything with us. I think there may be more information but it may have been deliberately kept from us. We are where we are and the main thing to understand is what will be the best outcome for AD, but for that we need to be INVOLVED and have transparency in all discussion being held at LA.....
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Johanna
May 8, 2017 14:22
Hi Am in support of above posts. There is a balance between how much you can take as a family and how far you can remain as a unit. There was a period when our young teen was in birth family/ foster care and she came back to us but it did not resolve. Technically she is still in foster care but it is now called share care except she is mostly with us through her own choice. This seems to work. We have always been involved in meetings. It has had difficult patches particularly at first because she had anger issues and other complications. Now the SSD sees her needs more accurately. It is better for her and we do not get the flak for educational issues as in their care it became appalling and they then had to tailor a package for her needs which beforehand they refused to see. One meeting I remember was the sw worrying about being taken to court by education .... you cannot make it up! Hoping things work out for you all as a family. Sometimes parenting from a distance or shared care can work. Johanna
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adoptionp
May 8, 2017 14:52
We plan to use 'mentalising focus approach' which is used to treat personality disorders.
Edited 17/02/2021
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