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My AD's best friend's fairy tale family...
Haven
December 8, 2018 23:38
Hello, Iâm so sorry if this is a bit mumsnet-ish - I have thought long and hard about whether itâs adoption related - and well, itâs our family, so it is! Sorry thereâs a fair bit of background! My 16 y.o. daughterâs best friend is the only child of a well off two-income family. We are a one-income family with two needy kids, and extra education to pay for. The friendâs family love my girl, warts and all, and Iâve even been able to chat to the mum about some of my ADâs issues - Iâm not sure she totally gets it, but she listens - but my AD presents herself well to the world and thatâs all they really look at! But there are things Iâm finding a bit hard - they pay for her to go places and do things we canât afford and we canât reciprocate. They drive my AD everywhere (because their daughter gets driven everywhere) - I want my girl to walk, as she gets driven to school 30 miles away every day. At Haven Towers, we canât really splurge on anything at the moment. My girl is going abroad on holiday with them for a week in the summer - itâs a ferry fair to Europe that is charged by the car load and an inclusive hotel suite (they say) so will only cost us her spending money (and the cost of a flight so she can catch us up afterwards on our cheap and cheerful holiday with relatives). But I know that however much money we give her, she will have much more spent on her by the family. They recently offered to sell us (very cheaply) their daughterâs iPhone to give to her at Christmas - a newer model than the one our AD has - then ADâs phone got broken by accident there not long afterwards. It may be older, but itâs still a hi-spec phone and we feel strongly our AD should help pay the £100 to get it fixed. So we decided we wouldnât buy the iPhone, but get AD to do some jobs towards paying to get it fixed and get her something else for Christmas. I asked my AD if she had broken the news to them on more than one occasion - and she said yes. Tonight I found out she had done no such thing. It shouldnât surprise me, and I should have anticipated it, or dealt with it myself. The confident best friend was saying, âOh weâll pay to fix the phone so that you can still buy this one for her - you give could give her old one to someone elseâ I said weâd have a think, but actually, weâve already bought our AD other things instead, stupidly assuming she would have said something. Iâm going to have to have a chat with the Best friendâs mum, and sheâll great about it, which only makes me feel worse! So, I suppose, what Iâm asking, is this just all me? Should I not worry about their generosity (which really seems to be unconditional), even though it is sometimes at odds with my own values of working for things and appreciating them? And while I know they will appreciate that, they canât really change their lifestyle to suit my ADâs needs, can they? I feel that my AD needs to learn to work for things as her neglect has left her unmotivated to do much for herself and her real need to be sheltered and cared for makes the family very desirable to my AD (though the girls are genuine friends). Am I just being a curmudgeon? Thanks all xxx
Madrid
December 9, 2018 00:46
No, darling, youâre not. I get the feeling theyâre trying to take over: as if they will go to any lengths for your daughter to get/match up to what they provide for their own daughter. Itâs your decision how you parent your daughter. If youâre doing/buying things for her then thatâs it. They shouldnât belittle you in any way. Maybe disentangle a bit? The girls donât have to do literally everything together or have totally identical things - do they? Your family, your rules. X
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Milly
December 9, 2018 07:56
I think where the spending benefits their dd, you should let it go because they're really doing it for their daughter. Eg for the holiday or a day out. Re the phone - that feels over the top. It's no concern of theirs whether your dd has a better iPhone or whatever and I wouldn't like that kind of interference, especially since you want your dd to take responsibility and learn the value of things. In fact it strikes me as either patronising or critical so I'd say you do need to tackle this. Here we haven't taken friends on holiday but have often paid for outings or meals etc. It's not always reciprocated (dd1's friends' families tend not to be as well off as us) but it doesn't bother us at all as our aim is to support dd's friendships and make sure she has a good time. And dd2 has a disabled friend from a well-off family (their house is done up to an enviable standard and they travel extensively) - they entertain dd and take her to concerts etc. We can't reciprocate directly due to our house not being in the least wheelchair accessible. They've mentioned taking dd on holiday. I'm not comfortable with that as I'm not sure dd could cope, but I'd let her go if it felt right for her.
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cowgirls
December 9, 2018 12:47
Hi possibly they feel "guilty" as they only have one child and are over-compensating. I think I can be charged with this when we only had one child. Also different rules & different families. On Thursday it was raining & after dropping off my eldest I saw a neighbours kid struggling with a few bags & weather was awful. What I didn't know was his parents had refused to take him as he'd been very rude & wasn't ready when they offered. And getting him to walk to school & be late meant a detention. So I really accidentally under minded their decision.
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safia
December 9, 2018 14:17
Itâs hard isnât it? I think they are probably doing it all very innocently but the issue with the phone does seem to cross a boundary. As far as trips etc are concerned it is lovely they want to include her and that she has a friend with such a generous family - you can reciprocate in other ways by including her in things you do as a family - just having her at yours for example - not suggesting you donât just pointing out this is reciprocation and also good for their daughter to see other families are different. Maybe have a chat with the mum to explain where you are coming from with some of the other issues - such as the walking and the phone - it might help them think differently in the future and get things a bit more balanced. Itâs lovely she has such a good friend with a caring (and generous) family - Iâm sure if youâre honest they will appreciate it as there could be others that might be inclined to take advantage of their generosity
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pingu123
December 9, 2018 14:40
I appreciate your dilemma, Haven. As my younger son has a bursary placement at a private school, and a number of rich friends, we have had this kind of thing happen here. One of ds2's friends said he was upgrading his iPhone just before Christmas and talked to ds2 about him maybe buying it. We told ds2 at the time that we couldn't afford to do so. When the upgrade actually occurred, which turned out not to be till February, he gave it to our son anyway !! We had refused an offered iWatch the previous year from a different friend because we felt that friend might start using the gift to manipulate my son, but on this occasion, and having refused my son last year, we felt that refusing him this iPhone would have seriously affected our relationship with our son. Plus it's hard enough for him having less money to spend on a daily basis than his friends, and having a decent phone did help make it easier for him in the company of classmates. It's not an ideal situation and sometimes I wish I could do more to even the score, but we can't at the moment. Thing is these are lovely people. We have never felt patronised and I don't think the parents concerned want to take over. They have enough to do in their own lives and have never been at all snobbish or superior in any way. I have never felt that we were being patronised, only that these parents want him to enjoy their sons' company, and that to them passing on an iPhone is no more significant than us passing on outgrown children's clothes or lending a neighbour some sugar ! I let it slide but warned ds that if he broke or lost it we couldn't afford to replace it, and so far he has looked after it, but I don't know your dd so I would say do what you think is best for her, as I am sure you always do. I will be interested to hear what others think and how they handle this sort of stuff as I still struggle with finding a balance here between gave and take in these circumstances.
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Flosskirk
December 9, 2018 16:00
We have been in this situation but as the benevolent family - our girls have friends from difficult backgrounds who don't get to experience the things our two take for granted. I do think I enjoy spoiling them - often it doesn't cost us much as we just have an extra body in the car and our two get things like carers passes to the cinema and to concerts so we can take a friend for free. While I like spoiling them, it is largely for our benefit as our girls don't have many friends or the ability to plan and organise their own activities. So I wouldn't worry about it.
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Serrakunda
December 9, 2018 17:07
Again from the other side - Simba's best friend is one of 5, mum is still at home with the youngest so not much money. Whilst I could never run to a holiday, I will often pay for the friend to go swimming and hot chocolate/cake afterwards, give Simba a few extra pounds for the fair, or provide a packed lunch if they are going off somewhere. Our house, particularly since we got the manshed, is the go to place for sleepovers and hanging out, so I'm often feeding three teenagers for two days. Its worth it to me because Simba has always longed for friends, when he had the first sleepover it was like all his Christmases had come at once. It doesnt cost me much in the grand scheme of things, I know where they are, they are safe ( knife crime on the increase here) and it makes T happy. On the other hand I have friends in Cornwall who we visit every year, will never let me do a shop, so we get a free holiday every year. So I try and reciprocate in other ways, take a nice bottle of wine, things that they find hard to get in Cornwall ( they are Indian), box of expensive chocs etc, always send them a thank you card. So I don't think its that they are trying to take over so much, it doesnt cost them much, they can afford it, so they probably think why not. Maybe you can find ways other ways to recipricate? I understand the concern about wanting your daughter to earn things, and the attraction to the family. I think I would explain that to them, and ask them to check with you before they offer anything, and not rely on AD to tell them anything important.
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Larsti
December 9, 2018 17:13
I'm with Flosskirk Growing up and in our early marriage we didn't have much money but in more recent years we've been more well off and we do tend to be generous by nature. Sometimes I worry that we might seem like we're spending a lot of money to impress (like our daughter's wedding which had a LOT of guests but that was more that they, and we, wanted to share the occasion with as many friends as possible and they wanted children there so that ups the numbers somewhat!) We're not really into techie things though so ironically Dash has been teased at school for not having certain things ('You're Mum and Dad must be poor because you don't have x y or z). So no cast off iphones here :-) But just reading your post Haven I feel sure that it is no problem whatsoever to your friends. Your daughter's friendship will mean a lot to their daughter and to them. So your family is a blessing to them. Now that our BCs are older, we are in a situation where Dash is like an only child sometimes, and it blesses us as well as him when we see other families with children roughly his age. On the other hand if you feel uncomfortable about the phone issue then yes you should communicate about that. Does your DD have a birthday coming up which maybe would be a suitable time to let her have the phone? Lastly its very British not to talk about money isn't it? We may be getting better at it but generally we don't like discussing anything to do with money.
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Larsti
December 9, 2018 17:33
A couple of other thoughts about generosity in general. People can have a lot of money and still be mean and/or mean spirited. On the other hand people who don't have much materially can be very generous, with their time, or with what they do have, or just kind and thoughtful and including other people in their family life. I had a neighbour who needed someone to feed her cat which I offered to do, and she did let me do that for her once. But we put our 2 cats into the cattery when we go away because one of them disappeared last time we left him at home and someone was feeding him. He's the kind of cat who goes to other houses pretending he's starving :-) This lady could not cope with the idea of me helping her out (and it was no trouble..I love cats!) when she couldn't reciprocate. I thought that was a shame. She is a giving sort of person but ,maybe not so good at receiving. She didn't want to feel in my debt I suppose? But I figure it doesn't have to be quid pro quo.
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Serrakunda
December 9, 2018 18:07
interesting points Larsti. I have a work colleague who is registered blind, she has a guide dog. A few years ago she was hit by a car and has been left with chronic pain. She also lives very close to me, in the next street to the supermarket I go to at least twice a week, she has no family to help. Its absolutely no problem for me to get her some shopping, particularly heavy stuff like dog food which I see her struggling with. But she will not accept any help from me. I expect nothing in return, I don't feel I'm being 'generous' its just good neighbourliness as far as I'm concerned. But she is too focused on being independent. Sometimes its hard to accept help or just someone else's genorisity, if you don't feel you can reciprocate in a similar fashion. But sometimes you will have the opportinity to give back in ways you never expected, when there is illness or a bereavement in the family for example. I travelled a lot in Africa before Simba, often in remote deserts. If you met other travellers you gave freely of your hospitality without suspicion about motivation, question, judgement or expectation of something in return. Because one day you might be the traveller in the desert whose car ( or camel!) has broken down, and need the help of a passing stranger. Maybe we have lost a bit of that sentiment in western cultures.
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Haven
December 9, 2018 20:01
Thank you so much for all your comments, really worthwhile - and thank you for not making me feel like I'm crazy! Despite my feelings of discomfort in certain areas, I do feel blessed that my girl has such a lovely friend with a lovely family - a few years ago she just wouldn't have managed a close friendship like that. She's come a long way and I don't want to lose sight of that. It is just all a tricky balance, making sure that their generosity and well meaning gestures don't get in the way of helping my girl become more able to look after herself. I think I'll try and organise a coffee with her friend's mum and chat informally about where we are with her and how they can help - because I think that's what they want to do. As a wee postscript, I was chatting to my girl earlier. She was talking about how much her best friend argues with her dad and how well she feels she gets on with both of us. She goes a long way to making our relationship 'smooth' as she's still afraid of rocking the boat, of course. But it's always nice to hear that money is not everything to a teen! xxx
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chocoholic
December 9, 2018 20:37
This is an interesting thread, thanks Haven for being brave enough to start it! We have a similar thing here, but with family not friends. My brother and his wife, and my adult niece, are very generous to Twirl in particular, as well as my older sons. I can find it a bit tricky sometimes as we have made particular life choices (including adopting twice, and both working part-time because of this) which have meant that we don't have anything like the kind of cash they have. But the thing is, even if we were richer we wouldn't choose to spend it the way they do, and on the things they like to own, so it sometimes makes me feel a bit hypocritical saying ' these are our family values' and then allowing my teenage son to be given a brand new iphone as a gift, which we would never have bought for him in a million years, and buying cast-off iphones for Twirl when they upgrade.... I have to swallow my pride a bit, because really, these gifts were amazingly generous, and meant the world to both the young people concerned... In some ways, they have really fully appreciated the generosity of these family members because they know full well as parents we wouldn't even have considered purchasing these items, and they do understand why. In the latest move my sister-in-law & niece are planning to take Twirl to EuroDisney next year - we & she have paid our share, but again, I wouldn't have been willing to spend that kind of sum on taking the whole family ourselves... frankly it would have stuck in my craw, doing the fantasy land thing for a weekend for hundreds of pounds, if not thousands for a family, when the real world is full of starving sick children living in mud huts and sleeping on the streets... see what I mean about family values lol, I'll stop before I start ranting! I have come to the conclusion that there are times I just need to swallow my pride and enjoy the gift of caring supportive aunties, uncles and cousins, and allow them to bless my kids with their different lifestyle choices every now and again. We muddle through it somehow!
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pingu123
December 9, 2018 21:04
We did Eurodisney day trip from the nearest campsite as part of a French camping summer holiday that didn't cost any more than a similar camping trip in the UK, possibly even less. In fact I it was London Olympics year and we had a couple of cheap nights at Gilwell enroute south thanks to Scouting links, as they offered cheap camping to folks going to the Olympics. We had managed to get a couple of basketball tickets in the raffle so it turned into a London and Paris trip. Surprising what you can do on a tight budget. Even despite ds2 having a meltdown outside St Pauls after the climb, and another in the Mona Lisa room at the Louvre ( we have collected " meltdowns in famous places over the years) And I have just remembered that ds1 threw up in the tent that holiday (he used to be sick about once every two or three weeks in the early years here) DH and I spent a lot of time up at the French laundrette that day.....
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chestnuttree
December 9, 2018 21:28
I have been on both sides (been much worse and much better off than some family and friends). My kids are in a similar situation with some very wealthy and some quite poor friends. I think that is a great learning opportunity. Different life styles bring different choices with them and both have advantages and disadvantages. I have always socialised with people from all kinds of backgrounds and have felt comfortable and I want the same for my kids. Having wealthy friends can mean having fantastic experiences and opportunities. Being better off than some friends can mean being able to share and give new experiences to someone else. Both are lovely! Different people bring different things to the table and I think it is great if we all mix and mingle. I don't think anyone is trying to take over. They want to share and financially it doesn't matter to them. They are just being generous and kind and genuinely like your daughter. You might feel that you are indebting yourself and that you need to reciprocate somehow. If you do, I would cook some jam for them, bake a bread for them or just do something they would not normally get, so they can see you are making an effort in your own way. If you feel strongly that your daughter should walk or not have that phone, I would politely decline and explain your reasoning. Most likely, they will understand. Apart from that I would just let her enjoy and learn.
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Flosskirk
December 10, 2018 00:26
We went to Disneyland Paris and stayed at the Newport bay hotel. I don't think that makes us bad people and I am really, really upset by the implication that we are.
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chocoholic
December 10, 2018 07:14
hey, Flosskirk, nothing about bad people mentioned here, I think I described my relatives as caring and supportive (and generous) it's just about different lifestyle choices. We have made a conscious decision to try to live simply, because this is important to us, although this doesn't mean we never allow ourselves luxuries. It doesn't mean we're better people, just people who make specific choices about the way we spend our money.
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Flosskirk
December 10, 2018 09:32
Well you did say about going to Disney "would stick in your craw" because of all the suffering in the world. I found that pretty triggering. We are a one income family too as I gave up work to bring up the girls and I don't work. We support e.g. homeless charities, take recycling seriously, our car is 18 years old....but we also have nice holidays. It's the one thing I depend on for my sanity.
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chocoholic
December 10, 2018 10:10
I apologise if I inadvertently pressed your buttons Flosskirk. Holidays for sanity is a very familiar concept to me! Tbh the whole Disney thing is a big trigger for me, which is why it would 'stick in my craw' more than almost anything else. As a word of explanation, I work for an international children's charity and spend my working days neck deep in stories of children living in the most horrific conditions, often with barely adequate adult protection, if any, then I surface and come home to two traumatised girls... When I am at church, or the school gate, or out with my (generally) middle class friends and hear other parents talking about going to Disney as if it was some inalienable right for their child, an experience no child should miss (believe me I have listened to many such conversations), I can't help feeling like banging my head against a wall. So in my mind Disneyland - the fantasy land - has become a symbol of inequality and excess, the ultimate head-in-the-sand, self-indulgent experience of families living in an affluent Western bubble who have no idea of, or interest in, the massive needs of the majority world. I hope I am mature enough to recognise that this certainly doesn't apply to everyone who visits Disney, however, but that's why I made the earlier comment. As a footnote, which probably also illustrates that I am a bit extreme in this regard, the most expensive holiday we have ever been on was to Uganda, because I wanted my children to meet our sponsored children, to have first-hand experience of the lives of the majority world, and an understanding of how privileged their own lives actually are. My oldest son is planning to move to a very poor Central Asian country next year, and we are already saving up to be able to visit him. In the meantime Twirl (still struggling with the memory of the toilets in Uganda) is wandering round the house shouting 'why can't we ever go to Ibiza'!! I hope her time at EuroDisney with her auntie will be a consolation for her!
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Flosskirk
December 10, 2018 10:23
I see where you are coming from chocoholic. For us, our girls just loved theme parks. It wasn't really about Disney tbh, it was for the rides. We stayed in a nice Disney hotel to be near the park so we could go to the room in case of meltdowns. And we went with my parents and my brother and his family to celebrate my mum's 70th birthday. We normally holiday in the UK in cheap cottages or stay with my parents. My younger daughter moans about the lack of holidays to the sun. I have booked bigger cottages over the last few years so we could take friends with us but it's still cheap in comparison with going abroad.
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