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Interesting article. My DD has actually been diagnosed with both. Community Mental health team diagnosed Unstable Emotional Personality Disorder which I think is another way of saying BPD and were quite pessimistic about the outcome. However after a 28 hour stay in our local A+E she ended up with a 6 week stay in a tier 4 CAMHS unit coming out with a diagnosis of Complex PTSD. According to NICE Guidelines the Gold Standard therapy is EMDR for which we are currently waiting confirmation of ASF Funding. The Mental health trust won't fund it and she is also back under the care of the adult community mental health team because she is over 16. I really would have liked her to stay supported by the CAMHS psychiatrist because he understood her issues but sadly this isn't possible because of where we live and her age - just turned 17.

I haven't read the article yet but I was actually thinking of posting about Paranoid Personality Disorder. My daughter's psychiatrist thinks she has this. Personality disorders are not usually diagnosed until early adulthood as it is the long term and pervasive nature of the symptoms which indicate this diagnosis. There are a number of aspects which overlap with both trauma and attachment difficulties - such as the difficulty with trust. Paranoia I have also read is an expression of rage - which makes sense in her situation. Looking at all the characteristics though it does seem to fit her really well and also explains some aspects which I have found really hard to explain in a way that nothing else ever has before. She hasn't actually been diagnosed with this yet as the psychiatrist was going on a meeting he had with me but will see her soon. I have never heard anyone mention this on the forum so would be interested to hear if anyone is familiar with this. As with a lot of psychiatric conditions adverse childhood experiences are a big factor in the background of people who have been diagnosed with all these disorders and there is no doubt a huge overlay with complex trauma. I think for me the biggest realisation is that what we are talking about is life long whereas with complex trauma there is always the hope that at some time it will be "cured". When we were considering AD before placement I looked up personality disorders as her BM had a diagnosis of schizoid personality disorder and ruled it out as an issue as there was no evidence it was hereditary - however when I have researched it recently there now IS evidence of a genetic component!!! Which ever way - I feel any explanation that fits is helpful and I'm hoping can be used to get long term support services (ever hopeful!)

I know this is about a different disorder but there was a fascinating article in "The Scotsman" newspaper today, by the psychiatrist who interviewed the boy who killed the little girl on Rothesay. He says that young children ( under five) should be checked for psychopathic traits as " you don't suddenly become pychopathic when you turn 16" He says that a big portion of it is genetic, but good parenting can mitigate some of the worst effects. He has had a lot of criticism in the past from social workers and other practitioners and accusations of labelling children. A recent co-twin study has shown that child maltreatment was not associated with an increased load for NDDs ( Neurological disorders) which , he says is counter intuitive for many professionals who " seem to insist that children are positive until sullied by bad parenting. The research showed that co - occurrence of childhood maltreatment with NDDs seeems to a large extent to be accounted for by a shared genetic liability, increasing both the risk of being maltreated and having more co- occurring NDDs. Interestingly he also says that more carefully constructed adoption studies have clearly shown genetic factors in psychopathy but that warm , consistent parents who build attachment can reduce, though not cure callous-unemotional traits, if the child is young enough. There is lots more there and if anyone can find a link online to the article please post as I suspect some on here will want to read it. I have certainly seen plenty of people here convinced that there is some element of genetics going on in specific cases that they know of. It was the adoption comments that struck me as pertinent.

That sounds really interesting Pingu - I’d like to read it if anyone can post the link. I’ve actually just started reading a book called “Healing the fragmented selves of trauma survivors” by Janina Fisher which is very relevant - I think I came across it when trailing through information on complex trauma - she worked with Bessel van der Kolk so her background is in trauma and her specialism in treating dissociative states. I’m just reading the introduction and it’s talking about how although it’s acknowledged BPD has its roots in trauma it’s not acknowledged enough in the treatment. Quote: "it is rare for clients with borderline diagnoses to be treated as trauma patients or to be recognised as individuals whose “borderline” symptoms stem logically and tragically from the unsafe environments of their early life”. The information about PPD I’ve read so far emphasises that outcomes can be influenced by how the individuals are treated by others and the suggestions are similar to therapeutic parenting techniques. Harsh treatment can lead people to behave in dangerous and aggressive ways . So though not specific to adoption very relevant to what you are saying Pingu.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/aaron-campbell-some-social-workers-in-denial-about-child-psychopaths-dr-john-j-marshall-1-4899424 Got it !!

Very interesting article - it’s a shame professionals can be so un-open-minded in their willingness to look at all the possibilities. It reminds me of the recent discussion about the film of the police interviews of the murderers of Jamie Bulger. I can understand the family's upset and I think the film should have been discussed with them all the way along so they understood the reasons behind it - but I think it’s extremely important to look at what led to these two children committing murder - and what could be done to prevent it happening in the future. This can only be done with an open mind

Safia, in view of what we have just been reading, I just wondered , do you know if BPD has ever been linked to genetics, like some of the other disorders ?

When I was reading about PPD and the link to genetics I took it that it was a general thing regarding personality disorders - my AD’s BM’s diagnosis is different - that is both personality disorders but different ones - I will try and look it up again to check but that was my understanding

The article I was reading was about cluster A personality disorders and there being a strong genetic link in these - both my AD and BM would come under this - BPD is a cluster B personality disorder so not covered but no reason to assume there wouldn’t be a genetic element

I just wondered - does anyone have experience of paranoid personality disorder? Thanks