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It is my experience also like your f/c friend.... understandable that it will rock l/o's world & security ? behaviours can be extreme & very regressed ?

Have you got your l/o home?

If so has the A/O been granted?

Your answers will obviously effect my answers & advice....

Xx moo xx

I'd be interested to know who's told you that.

I do have direct contact and I just can't see how it can be 'enforced'.

Hmm, it’s been nearly 3 years since we were going through matching and discussing contact but in all cases we looked indirect contact was the norm.

Is this general advice you’ve had from someone or a specific agreement about a certain child? Like Moo said it’s probably a bit easier to advise if we know a bit more.

We have direct contact. This has been good for my little boy. However it is not enforceable. We have been completely in control of frequency and location. In fact I have been chasing services for about a month to help in setting up contact before the summer comes to an end.

This is very topical for me at the moment. When we got all the papers for our little one, direct contact was not deemed to be in his best interest, but letterbox was and we were completely in agreement with that. However a Children’s Hearing implemented a measure to start direct contact after he had moved in with us and it’s completely turned out worlds upside down. The impact on our little one has been tragic and my fury at the Children’s Hearing process continues. The Lawyers are back in Court this week to discuss appeals to this measure .... this and the decision to remove the non-disclosure from our address.

I am not sure where about you are in the UK and I do not expect you to reply with location. Direct contact in N.Ireland is very common but from my knowledge not particularly common in the rest of the UK. I do suspect though it will begin to become more common throughout the rest of the UK in the next decade. Much of this is in the wake of social media.

We have direct contact twice a year with BM. Our children are still young (under 5) and until now it has been fine. It is well managed by social worker, we are present for it, it is kept to an hour with all of us doing an activity together and enjoying a chat. Our children have not shown any difficulties with it. That said, if and when it becomes an issue for the children we will stop it, alter it and move to indirect. It is not enforceable as it is a contact agreement not an order. We are the parents and hold PR to make all decisions as to what we do and don’t do with our children. If anything contact reinforces this fact. When they hurt themselves or need help during the contact it is us they come too. It actually can be really hard to watch the hurt in BM when this happens. The last time our LO was stuck on a slide and BM was nearest and tried to help. LO screamed in her face “no mummy help!” I felt awful for BM but she was very respectful and stepped aside for me to move in.

we are keen to keep direct contact up if appropriate as it keeps an open line of communication for our children as they grow to have their questions answered in a real and tangible way. Their lifestory becomes real. BM is more than just a picture in a book. When we talk about her or when they talk about when they were babies and lived with X they know exactly who she is. Recently my son wanted pictures of him as a baby, we had none and SW-ers had been asking for a long time for some from BM but she never followed through. He asked her in contact (we pre-warned her through social workers he would be asking) and she turned up with a big envelope of photos. We had a lovely time going through them with her.

The contact does not scare me or make me feel any less their parents. It has clearly shown us that she does love my children but her life circumstances meant she was never going to be able safely parent them. I have the privilege of doing that but also acknowledge the significant part she plays in their lifestory. I am thankful that my children will not have to spend time wondering what she is like, where she is and perhaps making up imaginary fantasies about her. In time as they grow, they can be supported to build a relationship with her in an appropriate and safe manner if that is their desire.

All of this of course is my experience and an experience that is right for my children but direct contact is not right for every child and every circumstance. It will not be enforced if not appropriate or right for the child but what I say is it should not be thought of as something that is automatically scary or wrong. It is definitely worse considering.

That is a lovely post Bakergirl. We had direct contact for a year with my son - before the adoption order - because his social worker had gone long term sick before putting in the order to stop contact ( I don’t know why no one else could do this) Anyway although we were not involved - which was difficult because we just had to hand him over to staff at a family centre and perhaps we should have insisted on being there with him - we learned things about the birth family through how they reacted to different things that came up and we also provided a disposable camera and got some photos of him taken with his birth parents (we did not have any) and made a copy for them - and also a video of the goodbye session which his SW took. The contact since then was letterbox only - and for us has meant very little as the children grew older - and no desire for contact in their teens .

@moo I am nearing my approval panel for the application, not yet been matched with a child.

Unfortunately this has only just been mentioned by our s/w as something that councils are starting to push more in contact orders with adoptions (I'm in the South of England) and therefore I'm now at the point where I'm considering pulling out of the application altogether. My s/w leads me to believe that this is enforceable and therefore fills me with dread that I'll end up having the next 18 yrs dictated by the courts rather than in my control as her parent. I am more than happy to arrange direct contact with the parents if that is what she wants when she grows up, but I don't expect a court to tell me what is best.

I'm very confused at the moment and disheartened that I may have wasted the last 8 months of the application on something I may no longer pursue, haing got my hopes up that we were nearing the end of the application and would then be waiting for our match. This was not communicated to us at the start of the process and now makes me feel like I've been punched in the heart.

@stinkyB I totally get your concern if it is sold as something that is legally binding. I suggest you explore this further with your SW and probe deeper about your power to stop and alter if not appropriate for the child.

I suspect it will be an agreement and not an order. You are right to be concerned about entering into something that is going to make you tyour child do something that may be clearly damaging. I do suspect that it will never be part of an adoption order and more an ageement. Much of this recent move in the UK is coming from common practice in N.ireland for around a decade. However, there it is not an order but an agreement. I am aware of a number of families who have stopped direct contact as the child has got older as it was proving too difficult for the child. The families continued indirect contact to keep up the connection should the child want it again in the future. This was supported and facilitated by post adoption support.

What you do need to do now though is examine your own reaction to hearing about direct contact as a possibility. You mention you would be happy to support the child with direct contact when they are grown. I may be reading this wrongly but I suspect deep down you are not really supporting the idea of direct contact from the outset. Is this because the idea is so alien to you? What are your fears surrounding this? Are you willing to give it ago with a child from the outset if you know it is not legally binding? Can you see some benefits for a child in having an open door to their lifestory? I am not expecting you to answer these questions here but maybe mull them over so you can discuss your concerns and worries further with your SW.

I am south of England too and we are in the first couple of weeks of having our little one, I have never heard about them encouraging direct contact for as many children as possible. Our child has letter box contact as that is whats best for her situation. Plus birth family are miles and miles away, I really wouldn't pull out over contact because at the end of the day we are all doing what is best for our children and their futures. There will be children out there with letter box contact only, also when it came to the letter box contact we were asked if we agree to it as we have final say being the parents. Of course we said yes, I dont want her to look back when she is 18 and says to us why did we not write, I think that would be selfish so I will stick to the agreement and do it every year.

So are you now about to go to approval panel? Because you say you are nearing the end of the application, the matching process can still take a while to. Obviously every case is different but after approval we spent about 3 months looking and recieving profiles of children and once we had shown an interest in our little one it took a further 5 months for everything to happen. There are still SOO many stages to complete when being placed with a child and the matching panel too. A lot of child social workers and family finders are so over worked it takes them a while to reply to emails etc which then just adds time to the process. For where we are now, the months and months of stress and my tears (lol) I wouldnt change a thing. We just love our little one more than anything in this world, they are worth the fight and I would do it all again to have her.

I am really hoping that you have slightly misunderstood...

In my experience ( obviously things were very different when my 2 were placed all those years ago) direct face to face is not often insisted upon between child & birth family...

I have encountered it with various friends between sibs & their adopted children that has been successful....

In my view it really is a minefield & rarely in the best interests of young children (below 7) with bp's.... so much adjustment, fear , trauma & shame to deal with.... it is just too much....

Usually this is voluntary & you I am sure can say you aggree when meeting with s/w.... post placement pre AO try it see how your l/o('s) cope....

I feel sure with your sw help you will becable to justify allowing your child to settle post placement before you meet... perhaps as long as a year....

By then the AO should be through & if you felt it would be too much for your child you could easily change your mind & cancel....

Because I don't have face to face I struggle with the concept... I truely think it is very confusing for young children especially if they have poor or no memory of the people requesting it.... they in my view need to concentrate on bonding & understanding their feelings & boundaries of belonging in their forever home....

Obviously your childs adoption will not be a secret! So they will grow knowing their identity & over time gain more & more depth from you about their beginings & adoption story.. In child centred language I have always shared all with my 2... They know all & understand well their indentity & reasons why decisions were taken on their behalf when they were babies....

Please don't make any rash decisions about pulling out.... with your sw help you will be able to decide case by case what is do-able... always with what is in the best interest of the child not just to placate the failed bp's.... There will have to be such firm evidence that face to face is in their interests.... ( who knows an older child would need to see a sib or friendly aunt to know they are doing ok without them & are happy that they are moving on with a new forever family!....)

Each case is obviously very different with its own vital circs xxx

Sending hugs xxx

HTH XX

XX moo xx

@moo the purpose of direct contact is not to appease the birth family. it may have the added bonus for social workers in being able to appease them a little in their anger but that most certainly is not the purpose. It is to allow the child a real and tangible understanding of who these people are in their lifestory book. In our case our eldest was at home for the first 18 months of his life and then spent a further 18 months in foster care with regular contact. His BM was a real and important figure in his life. I don’t believe she is a failed BP... the system failed her many times over as a child meaning she was just unable to meet his needs. This face to face contact has been so very much needed for him as we have been exploring his lifestory together and what being with us as his forever family means. It may not be needed in the future and we will review it. I was at a seminar on this topic recently and a very experienced social worker said that of the post adoption direct contacts that she was involved with many had reached teenage years. She said that there was beginning to emerge clear parallels with those teenagers who had grown up with direct contact and the way in which they were handling their lifestory and adoption story compared with those who had had none. In N.Ireland they are only just reaching the stage were adoptees who have grown up with direct contact are beginning to reach late teens/early adulthood, therefore no longitudinal study has yet been concluded but anecdotal evidence is suggesting on the whole it has been helpful. Where it has proved unhelpful has usually been to do with the quality of the contact and the BP’s ability to engage properly in it. In such cases it has usually halted quite quickly.

I do understand for many who have no experience of it and where it is fairly uncommon it really is an alien concept and was to me initially. In my early days of explore adoption a friend who had recently experienced adoption disruption with her eldest in mid-teens said “when I adopted direct was unheard of, but I wish we had had it.” She strongly believed her LO needed to have a real link to her identity and was something she was always searching for! The road to disruption started with unsolicited contact with BF pursues by her in the hope to find out something! Her BF never brought her the peace she was seeking! They did not offer the fairy tale fantasy she had in her head.

As I stated all cases are different..

I am pleased for you at your early stage of adoption with your son it is working well...

As you state 'where the quality of contact is unhelpful where bp cannot engage proprerly it is halted quickly'. Sadly that has been our experience. It can then obviously be damaging to the children to feel further damaged & let down by more broken promises or failed expectations...

This unfortunately is the very real practicalities/dangers as bp are often suffering in chaotic & disorganised lifestyles....

Good Luck To All Brave Enough To Take The Chance xx

Xx moo xx

We had direct contact with the BPs and there were pluses and minuses - though overall, in our case, with hindsight, I think it was a mistake. At one stage I would have held a different view...

I would share more details that I think would be helpful, but not in public and since I can't PM I'm stuck.