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Hi flutterbyJust wanted to send you a big hug. I hope you got some sleep. I'm sure that someone with more experience will be along soon.Best of luck.Mm

Hi, Flutterby -So sorry to read this. It's very, very tough for all of you.You say he's "depressed". Do you think that he's clinically depressed? That would explain being distant and hostile towards you as well. And it's not unusual. Post-adoption depression is a reality, strikes lots of adopters and happens to both men and women.You've been through a long period where you were hoping for an outcome (adoption) that was very important to you and where that outcome was in the hands of other people (social workers, panels, the system, the availability of the "right" child or children...). That is a recipe for a whole pile of stress: the more important to you the outcome is and the less you're able to influence it, the bigger the stress.That may have been preceded by the stress of being unable to conceive and infertility treatment, making it even longer.That's then followed by everything moving up about 16 gears as you go into introductions. There's the change of pace, the feeling of being scrutinised, being put in unfamiliar situations with unfamiliar people (I can remember the near panic of having to drive to a foster carer's house and play with a child that I didn't know in her living room for an hour. That was HUGELY stressful)You then have a child or children moving in. Having a baby is deemed to be one of the MOST stressful things that can ever happen to you. I think that adopting is even more stressful, personally, and it isn't tempered by a rush of hormones. For men, if your wife is pregnant she gives off pheremones which cause your own body to change it's hormonal output, preparing you for becoming a father. That doesn't happen with adoption. And, of course, it's not just a one-off like moving house. It continues and suddenly your life has changed completely. You're a father, with additional responsibilities and ties.And your relationship with your wife has suffered a quantum shift. For many of us, suddenly you're no longer number one in her life: her main focus is the child or children. They get the best part of her time, energy and attention. That is incredibly significant to most men.And so you have a long period of stress followed by the one of the most stressful things you'll ever do followed by a complete change of lifestyle and a huge shake up to your relationship with your wife.If you ever wanted to sow the seeds for depression in a man, that's a pretty effective recipe, I'd say.Depression is a life-threatening illness. In my worst bout, I found it hard to go near the window in my fourth-floor office because of the draw to throw myself out. And driving home there was always the thought of failing to turn a corner if there was a large lorry coming the other way. It was because the chemical changes in my brain made me feel useless and a burden on those around me. If that had happened after adoption, I think it could have been worse. The change to my wife's focus I would have interpreted as her not wanting or needing me. I was never a natural with kids, so the feeling of not knowing what to do and how to relate to the kids would have amplified the feeling of being useless and thus a burden.So I really, really hope that he can access some help. I'd recommend the GP. Counselling can help, if you can find the right counsellor. I'm willing to communicate if he wants.And although I wouldn't recommend it as a first step, there's every reason why you should discuss it with your social worker even if he won't. I'd put it something like, "It affects us and it affects the kids. We need to tell the SW. Are you going to bring it up or shall I?"Love,Corkwing

HiSorry to read things are so difficult right now. The early months are very hard and many thoughts go through our minds as to whether we have done the right thing, can we cope with the behaviours, what has happened to our lives etc etc. Our relationships change and it can seem a very lonely time. I know my DH hated going back to work, after far too many years of wanting a family he had 4 weeks off and then back to work, he felt he was missing out on so much and he was coming home to a bedtime routine and an exhausted wife.For all your sakes you and your DH need to talk about this and see if there is a way forward. What is it that he is finding so hard? Is he struggling to connect with the LO? Does he resent the attention she has from you? It is a huge life changing event and it is going to take time for everyone to adjust and find their place in the family unit. If he won't talk to you then he has to find someone, a friend, GP or a relative. Is he feeling guilty over his feelings and the fact you may have to choose between him or the child? He may feel he is letting you down after all you have been through to have a child. There are so many possibilities and it does need addressing.We are further in, over 5 years, but last year my FIL died and DH took it badly. He withdrew from all of us emotionally and stopped doing things with DS. No matter what I did, it wasn't enough for DS who needed and wanted his Dad. In the end I told my DH he either had to get some help or he would have to leave as he was causing more stress and distress than my children needed. Until this time my DS was doing OK and life was pretty 'normal' but it just goes to show how easy it is for them to be thrown off course years down the line.Adopted children are going to have all suffered trauma and loss and they are very good at picking up on other people's stress and feelings. This can have a massive impact on them which will effect behaviours and relationships, adding more stress to the family.It may be worth you going to your GP and getting some support for yourself. This is going to have an impact on you and you need to look after yourself as well. Unfortunately a lot of men don't like talking or seeking help but it really is important that he does. He is an adult, he has to sort through this because the solution is not as easy as putting the child back in care. How would that affect your relationship with him? Good luck V x

Hi,We are 14 weeks into placement. After about 7 weeks I became really depressed and cried every day, this lasted for about 4 weeks. It all seemed so hard. Understandably this put a strain on my relationship with my other half. However, as quickly as the depression came on, it lifted, I think it was to do with parent shock and exhaustion. Now 14 weeks in things are beginning to settle. I wouldn't say things are easier but they are less stressful as we are adjusting to our new norm. A friend said to me that she believed that it took at least 12 weeks for you to begin to feel in any way settled in your new life and at about 8 weeks all your sleep reserves are used up and life seems even harder. Not sure if this is helpful for you, but I wish you all the best.

Hi FlutterbyMy username gives it away, but I am a dad. I rarely reply to posts on here as I feel I am only in the early stages of adoption, daughter placed a few weeks ago, but felt I had to when I read your post.I can understand to a degree what you are all going through as we have a BS who is now 13yrs. I remember the early days of sleepless nights and no time as a couple. The feeling are going back to work that I was being pushed out of e relationship and, yes, the feeling of jealousy. Add onto this all the pressures of adoption and what has brought you to this point........So, if my opinion and experience is worth something, here goes.....1. Talk, talk and talk some more. If he won't then find a mate of his and get him invited out for a drink and get the mate talking to him for you.2. You need to find a time for just you two....I know it's hard but you need to really lean on your support network, even for a few hours. Then get out...have some adult time and conversation and remind each other of why you aogether. 3. Get your thoughts onto the table...admit your fears and then figure out how you can work on them together. What is driving the worries? 4. Get your SW to start having 1:1s with you bothUs men are really difficult, we see things in black and white and just retreat into our caves when we get scared. Children are not black and white, there is no rule book that we can read and so when we are faced with the unpredictability of them it throws us completely. Put that alongside the fact that the little boy in us is seeing someone else get your attention then we are really in trouble. I'm not saying that anything in he above is right, or that we shouldn't just 'man up' but it is, in all honesty, my experience having gone through it a few times. For us, this time around, things are so much better. This was only due to the fact of having done it all before but even with that it is still hard. We haven't managed to escape together yet but we have had time out alone and evenings, are our AD and BS go to bed is our time for us to chat about anything and everything. Of course it is going to involve the subject of the kids but it is about remembering and naming our time together.Good luck and if by chance you are based in the south and wants an alternative view on things, let me know

I have no right of speaking as a single adopter but one sentence 'stuck':-We are no longer getting on, it seems to have put a wedge right between us-I know it is not uncommen that problems in a relationship get 'high lighted' by the placement of child. If talking is difficult you might want to get some counseling to figure out what the real reason is behind this difficult situation.Keep strong, I do not think disruption will be the answer to your problems.

Hi FlutterbySo sorry to hear how hard things have become for you all - when someone is depressed it can be almost impossible to speak about how they feel what they are thinking - suggest he writes it down, it will help clarify things for both of you - perhaps he could send you an email and you reply - it may sound silly but sometimes having a bit of distance not having to see someone's face and eyes can make it easier to concentrate on what is going on emotionally.In a desperate situation, try a different way of communicating and it may help....the very best of luck....

Big hugs flutterby, My DH went through this too. I knew it was coming as he went into the whole adoption process with rosé coloured spectacles on so I was expecting the fallout when our 10 month old moved in. All was good to start with but then he started withdrawing and becoming grumpy and then he said "I can't do this, what have we done, it's too hard" So I put my plan into action. I pampered the hell out of him..did all the chores around the house, got him cups of tea, breakfast, dinner etc and told him how much I loved him, how good a husband and father he was etc all the time...And I mean all the time! I took LO out of the house for 2 hours every morning so DH could have a lie in because he deserved it! In return DH played with LO for an hour each afternoon while I sat upstairs...that did the trick, after a week of this DH was smitten and could not see life without out beautiful son and he also felt that He hadn't been replaced in my heart.I don't know if any of that will work for you, just wanted to share and say its not always hopeless.Good luck xx

I think if you were to disrupt because of your husbands response, do you think your relationship would ever recover?I ask that because I have known several relationships where the man went Awol after having their children, either first child or then the second sometimes pushes the button, and some men have come back and recovered others have moved on and broke up, all had birth children. However non of the women had a choice to not carry on parenting, is adoption that different? I do know that it is different because you are under the watchful eye of SS, but if you had had a child and the man drifts which I don't think is that completely uncommon, is that a disruption reason, I don't know as I don't know what the usual response from Sw's is on this area, I just wanted to hightlight that as I feel so awful for your situation it must be awful and I have seen friends torn to pieces by this situation at the time of the mans confessions to not be able to cope, but if you disrupt how would you feel as that little girls new mother, and how would you feel about your DH after, it's just things to think about? I would if you can do as all the others have said and try your very best to work through the issues as there is a good chance he is all over the place and just needs to steady, it is such a massive jolt to the system. But I would also look at what you want too, and also what the LO needs?

You've had some very good responses, particularly from the male perspective.I will try to be as understanding as they've been but have to admit to a certain irritation at your husbands naïveté and selfishness. Sorry.Parenting any child is hard work. Parenting an adopted child is much, much harder. He did the training with you - maybe there is an issue with that training if he's struggling so much with the reality.I'm sure you're finding it tough as well. What is he doing to help you and your lo? If this was a birth child and he was struggling to adapt then would you then be considering putting your baby in care? Can he not try to put himself in this child's position? If he's finding it hard going, then just imagine how hard it is for this poor child who didn't ask for any of this to happen.I realise that this sounds pretty harsh but you've both made a commitment to this child. He can't just shut down and force you to make difficult choices alone. How would your relationship survive?

thanks to everyone for your valid points, good ideas hints etc. The situation is quite complicated and I suppose what has not helped is the fact that our so-called massive support network has not been there to help in any way. Although they all live locally it is astonishing how non of them - relatives and friends alike have suddenly found it practically impossible to pop over, call or even text. It is so isolating when you cannot reach your so-called nearest and dearest all of a sudden and when we call they seem to be in a rush or we get a rather luke-warm response which makes you feel like your should not have bothered to call to find out how THEY are... So we are completely on our own with this and literally no-one to turn to. It is not even like they are away on their summer holidays.So I will raise few things with our social worker when she next visits and in the meantime try and open channels between us. I certainly do not want to disrupt the placement, but am feeling overwhelmed for not only having to deal with a traumatised child and strained relationship, but also realizing that maybe people around me are far more selfish than I thought. This makes me sad because I have always helped people when they had a tough time and would have hoped that this would be reciprocated.

You know Flutterby...perhaps thats the issue you can BOTH target together - the Support network issue.By presenting it to him as 'yes its hard, particulary as none of OUR SN are available/understanding etc' - may take the pressure/guilt off how hard hes finding it...Its putting both of you on the same team, so to speak - you two of you against the world!Its acknowledging that its not his failings per se, but actually neither of you are getting the support you expected...and focussing his current feelings on a specific 'problem' to be worked out (I gather that mainly men like to have a specific problem they can address - forgive blanket statement male-readers!!)But it is a legitaimate problem you need to address with those who assured you they would support you...invite them over - turn up at theirs - tell them you're struggling as a new family.....and you need some help! tell them you dont knwo what help you need...maybe just a call, some interest, help with laundry, taking you out for an hour....Sometimes its just that which others need to hear to push them into action....without knowing it, they may be thinking theyre giving you what you both need - space - you have to spell it out and ask them for help!Do you think that would work?? xx

Hi thereSorry - that sounds immensely hard.I was wondering what your husband's expectations were before placement - do you know why he particularly wanted to adopt for example? I know that probably seems like a daft question, but did he for example want to adopt to be more like people in your community/family? Because if that was a driver and now no one is welcoming you into that role, then that would be particularly hard.I know that when I adopted, I was looking forward to getting to do all all the mummy and family things my friends and family had been doing for years. Only it didn't work out that way for me and it was hard to adjust to the new reality. People really didn't rally round like I thought they would. Friends dumped us and didn't give us as much as a card. People said inappropriate things.Adopting can bring out so many different feelings. It's okay to admit that - it's how you then cope that matters. Are you in touch with any other adopters from your prep course or AUK local group? It would be great if your husband could spend some time with other new adopter dads who might be having some big feelings too.Not sure about discussing with social worker to be honest with you - they are likely to be concerned and want solutions, and quickly. I would try to work things through myself.Good luck

Hi Flutterby, I know you have had many replies,but think it must be so difficult for you at the moment as you are trying to make the placement work under such stress and strain.I do completely understand as all the prep in the world does not fully prepare people for how they may actually feel when a little one is placed.Sometimes feelings can come as a shock as it can be so different from what people expected.I think seven weeks is so early and i really would persevere with your little one as it is such a short time.You do not say where this change with your hubby came from it may be a few things that have mounted up and made him feel depressed. Maybe he feels rejected by little one especially she is bonding with you and you dont have time or energy for him. Also little ones can be good at splitting couples to keep the attention focused on them. I personally think you are better speaking to your SW so you get the right support at this crucial time,they would rather give you support to make this work than have you disrupt. In adoption it is always key to deal with loss etc before as when a child arrives it brings so much emotion and can make things in your own life resurface maybe your hubby needs to chat to someone who is not emotionally linked so he can say exactly how he feels without worry. I really think if you could get to a support meeting for adopters it could help you to have someone to chat with.I do completely understand where you are as we had a very testing time during intros and then shortly after placement we had a sudden death in the family and it led to my husband having counseling to deal with the loss he found it very difficult at that time dealing with a new highly demanding,rejecting daughter,we discussed disruption many times,but were open with our SW who did all she could to help and arranged support.(sending our little girl back into care was unthinkable) We are now 4months in and i am so happy we persevered.Life is up and down but somewhere near a new normal! I hope you can find some support with family and friends and other adopters, keep being open and talking as you need to release your anxiety Takecare and take each day as it comes and don`t be scared to ask for help from SW and your support networkHugs m-c

Hi FlutterbyUnfortunately many support networks do not live up to their promises once a child is placed We had a huge SN, all backing us 100 % with adoption, but reality is we have my parents as our true SN, the only ones who do anything worthwhile for us and the children. It is really important you build a new SN with other adopters, especially locally. Does your LA hold a toddler type group? They should have an evening support group which if your DH won't go to while you babysit, you go and seek support for yourself. A new placement is stressful enough without having to worry about your DH and his feelings to this extent.7 weeks in is very early and not an ideal time to be thinking of someone else looking after LO. I think DS had been home about 5 months before we went out for a meal, having put him to bed and ensured he was asleep first and then rushing back as soon as the meal was over. Would have been more enjoyable having a take away! Could you set up a date nigth with DH at home, take away, bottle of wine etc and spend some time together? Maybe I've missed it, but I don't think you've said how old Lo is? Keep talking. x

Thanks again for all the trouble all of you have been taking in writing such detailed replies. I am really thankful to all of you, there are so many, I would love to pm you all, but sadly this will take so long, I do not think I would manage. We have much older birth children and have gone back to having a complex, very young child around. My husband is certainly not a young dad and I think he is unable to see that things won't always be like they are now. When he is with LO he is the most doting dad you could find and no-one would ever guess he might be struggling. He will not let this interfere with caring for her, he is very responsible. But I think this is where most of his problems lie. He puts too much pressure on himself and will always put himself last. So yes, I agree, he needs support and someone, i.e. me telling him it is ok to still have space for himself - and in fact that it is vital! We will speak about our sudden lack of support from our network to our social worker and how this is making us struggle, hopefully this will be a non-threatening way to raise the issue without causing alarm. Our LO is such a lovely little girl, she deserves the best parents she can possibly have and hubby is asking himself whether he can meet the high standards he is setting himself without breaking under the strain and still have some sort of life.

Your DH sounds like a lovely man who is genuinely struggling, I feel for you both.I think it's a great idea to frame some questions around the support network issue, and whether your SW has seen this before with new adopters, does she have any advice about this etc. It might open up helpful dialogue without 'revealing' too much before you and your DH have had a chance to work through things a little more.My DH was older too (late 40s) when our AD was placed and did - still does! - fret about being an older dad. But he is wonderful. He is mature, measured, calm, doesn't care too much about what people think about our parenting style and still able to be creative, play physically, to enter AD's 'world' and imagination. Your DH doesn't have to be Superdad, just a good and loving Dad, that can be hard enough as adoption is so different and such a shock to the system. As people have mentioned, maybe you could be more explicit with the support network about what would help you? Would it be possible to brief one of your DH's friends, in the context of DH needing a break e.g maybe one of his friends getting your DH a 'surprise' ticket to see a film (and to go out with that friend to see it), or a footie match, something like that? Not sure what would float your DH's boat - but just thinking it would be really good if this didn't all fall on your shoulders.

Hadn't realised that this was second time round for you both. I have to be honest and say that knowing my three nothing would convince me to do it all over again. And maybe this is partly it? The realities of parenting a child who's very different to both of you and your birth children has smacked him between the eyes. Maybe the reality that this is going to be a long haul with no easy independence in sight is scary. I wonder also whether the original support network are in the same position - been there, done that and really don't want to go there again? Support networks do have a habit of melting away post placement. Mine has changed completely over the years and I've had to find different support. I'm not sure how old your lo is but you may find new friends through school or nursery. Either way your husband does need help with this. Even if lo isn't noticing now the time may come when your dhs ambivalence becomes clearer to your child. You're far braver than me to start all over again.

Just wondering as well, given the speed at which things seem to have happened, if he's possibly still in a state of disbelief?From October last year when you were considering adoption to being 7 weeks into placement less than a year later is really going some.The process generally takes a lot longer from prep to home study to approval to matching. Maybe it's been a little too fast for him?