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Medication won’t change her personality. What medication will do is give her a window of opportunity to begin to learn, to begin to focus, to start to learn to self regulate. She’ll still be the same child but a more rational, reasonable and easier to be with and teach version! IMO!! That aside. Re ODD - are they certain that’s what it is? PDA can look like ODD but subtly different and PDA seems to be more prevalent in girls. Pretty sure my daughter is PDA - she can be very demand avoidant but not outright defiantly. It’s far more subtle than that. She finds requests/demands quite threatening and has a range of strategies for avoiding. Requests cause anxiety. Anxiety presents as anger but really it’s more like a panic attack. That’s how we look at it. Of course PDA isn’t recognised everywhere so some profs will dismiss out of hand but it is considered to be part of the autism spectrum. Of course you know your daughter best but just thought I’d mention it. I have known of children misdiagnosed with odd when it’s not that.

As Donatella says, medication won't change her personality. Rather her personality will shine through as the problem behaviour will not be so apparent. I have never heard of 'mild' ODD. My AD was diagnosed with ADHD and ODD. The ODD was there all the time and was pretty unbearable. In her case the medication helped with both the ADHD and the ODD. It is quite possible that your child suffers from ADHD and PDA. Lily x

Thank you Donetella. The paediatrician said they don't diagnose PDA.

But they could diagnose ASD! Be very wary of an ODD diagnosis. It can make finding appropriate schools quite tricky. ODD can also be a precursor to conduct disorder. ODD and PDA are quite different. What do you think? Have you looked at parenting strategies for PDA - it can be quite extreme. My daughter ended up in hospital before Christmas with a panic attack when a school test wasn’t quite as she’d imagined, or prepped for. School was very concerned and called an ambulance for her. Do you think it’s deliberate defiance or not?

This provides information about ODD: https://www.webmd.boots.com/children/guide/oppositional-defiant-disorder Lily

Thank you again everyone. When I say mild/ moderate/ severe that is the part of the scale that she fell into. I mentioned PDA to the consultant and she dismissed it as they don't diagnose it so she won't be investigating it. As to whether it is ODD or PDA I don't know. My head is spinning. She also has sensory processing so that doesn't help the situation either I have to attend d triple p next month and apply the course. With all this and the letterbox fiasco I feel like I have gone into mental shutdown and can't process anything at the moment. I also have a banging headache. I need to.read more on both but don't have much time at the moment. She is defiant and does defy people in authority and has no fear of the consequences. She had epic meltdowns but that can be the sensory processing part coming out. She is very negative about herself and her achievements and is having play therapy for that and to help. She is really anxious and always likes to know what is going on and what is happening. She does tend to panic and this has got worse recently. I guess school may go for the medication but how else can they help apart from telling me her behaviour needs improvement. No $!#t Sherlock but that isn't helping her is It? Does anyone else feel like they are drowning and can't cope?

Maybe the defiance regarding people in authority is about her not understanding the adult/child hierarchy? That very much describes my daughter - she just doesn’t get that she’s not equal to a parent/a teacher etc and so sees zero need to comply. Over simplifying it because in another way she does partly get it so, for example, she’s more likely to listen to a head or a teacher but not a TA or a dinner lady because they’re at the bottom of the heap in her eyes. How much do they understand about her sensory needs? Is there an OT involved who could advise. Do they understand that her behaviour is her language and that they need to figure out what she’s trying to tell them?

Hi. Tbh schools often do very little with medical diagnoses. You need an educational slant to stuff. So ask school to involve their speech and language therapist and also their OT. Sometimes they won't do this unless you are getting an ehc ( due to the funding) but ask anyway. I had to get private reports done on my daughter with PDA to get proper help. SALT, OT and Ed psych. These were all educationally experienced and wrote their reports entirely about school. It can be a problem if you have more general reports which don't focus on education.

Will pm you. Squeak

Hi Welovecosta. Sorry to hear you have all of these things going on together, there is however light at the end of the tunnel. You have a diagnosis and there are treatments. When we were in your position, we went ahead with ADHD medication and it transformed our family. DS could control his impulsive behaviour, went from two years behind to meeting his year stage level, overtook my DD who is a year ahead in reading and can finally recognise the fundamentals of multiplication. I can leave him alone in a room to get on with stuff without knowing something will be destroyed when I return. I can walk down a street with him without constantly having to be ready to do the 100m in under 10s when he runs off into traffic. I can take him to a restaurant and have a meal without him trying to find every light switch and plunge the place into darkness. I was told by his year 1 teacher that they may have to consider isolated one to one education if his behaviour couldn’t be controlled. Now we are in the happy position that instead of being on the walk of shame to speak to the teacher at the school gate every day, we get handed achievement certificates and glowing reports. Meds take a few weeks to take effect, but one day you realise that things have changed for the better and then you can have the space to parent your child.

Just because they don’t diagnose PDA doesn’t mean she doesn’t have it.

Thank you all again for your comments. I appreciate what you are all saying about PDA and have been looking into it. I am just confused by everything at the moment. Maybe the clarity will come. Meeting is tomorrow and in the past school have been reluctant to do much as they ask for everything to be done through post adoption support so everything takes way longer. I don't have much support so do feel bewildered. I appreciate all your help. Thanks again

Just to say that not everyone finds Meds to be so transformative.

Medication helps my ad a lot. Without meds she really can’t access the curriculum- she’d be under the desk or rolling around! They don’t take away all of her problems as she’s a complex little girl and I think that adopted kids with adhd are often more complex than non adopted children with adhd. But they certainly help. And she’s more compliant on meditation too. You can also just give medication for school hours only if you have reservations. When children feel like they can succeed, hopefully this will have a positive impact on self esteem My biggest concern is the teenage years which are approaching fast. Without medication my ad is very impulsive and I think that she could be very vulnerable without medication. She can be crazy happy and silly, and I think people could take advantage of this, as she’s also very innocent, bless her. Medication somehow helps her to be more sensible and more risk and danger aware. It helps her be more mature. I have a son with adhd too who we haven’t medicated yet. He’s a different child- generally calmer, compliant at school, more sensible. I suppose he has more add than adhd. So if we were to medicate it would be purely for concentration purposes. He is very behind academically as his concentration is very fleeting, but to date this isn’t worrying him and he is having a very positive school experience- always smiling and the staff love him. He is not challenging in the way my daughter was without medication. As long as he is having this positive experience at school, we won’t medicate, but it we see things changing then we certainly would consider medication- our fear is that at some point he will become aware of how behind he is, and this will affect his self esteem. It’s a more complicated decision with him. What really helps him at school is short bursts of intensive work (literally in 10 -15 minute chunks), lots of sensory breaks, lots of small group work in short bursts. And weekly sensory integration therapy for one - two hours at a clinic. I would highly recommend this. SI had had a massive impact particularly for my ad - it helped her more than any other therapy we have done Hope that helps Keep posting xx

Mine are very similar to Freddie's kids - my daughter NEEDS the medication - she needs it to keep her safe - for herself she says it calms her down - and she can concentrate much better - at the moment just on art activities etc but soon to start English and maths tuition so will see how much it helps there. There are many Other things in the mix too so it's not simple but it makes it more possible to deal with the other things. My son too is more ADD but hasn't been assessed as he doesn't want to - at the moment it's not affecting his life too much as he's doing sports coaching - he doesn't have the hyper side so is much calmer and not impulsive in the same way (with him it's mostly things like food and money) If he ever said he felt he wanted to be assessed or went back into education I would arrange a private assessment for him immediately. With the medication you can miss odd days and it doesn't matter - some medications like those for depression can't be missed but with ADHD parents sometimes take breaks due to the side effects like poor appetite which can affect growth or sleep problems. You soon see the benefits of medication when you take breaks like that

Also wanted to second what Madrid said - because they don't or won't diagnose something doesn't mean it's not there. Find out as much as you can yourself about PDA and see if the advice works for your situation. My daughter was told she did not need an assessment for ADHD as an adult from the local MH services because the results of a screening assessment they did by someone " trained to do the assessment" did not indicate she had it - she was then assessed by an expert in adult ADHD and told she has severe ADHD and medication makes such a difference! As a child the GP did not refer because of the trauma and because she had an acquired brain injury. One thing does not necessarily rule out the other but just complicates it

I'd definitely try the medication if it's been offered. You have nothing to lose. Really it doesn't change their personality or sedate them - my dd is just more rational and more able to engage in a sensible conversation on meds. It's effective but certainly didn't cure everything - she was still a handful at primary, has always under achieved academically and had lots of emotional problems at secondary. So I assume either not all aspects are affected by meds or else more is going on (FASD possible). As I understand it each dose leaves the body after X hours - there's no build up so don't see how it can take several weeks to work. On the contrary dd always seemed better immediately after starting a higher dose and then the effect would decline after a few days. Re school - they'll be more interested in behaviours / how the child presents at school than diagnoses. Even with ADHD every child is different - some aggressive, some silly, some well-liked, some avoided by peers . Each will have different interests so might love reading but hate maths for example - concentration is very much dependent on what appeals to them. Over focus can occur where they don't want to stop doing something they love. So the support needed will depend on the child. What do the school find difficult about her? What do you think would help? Dd has an EHCP - it literally lists every area of difficulty and what she needs - so many that some got overlooked. Eg she has very poor fine motor skills (bottom 1000th) but school weren't bothered as they felt her writing wasn't too bad. They did allow her use of a laptop but it took time to set that up as it wasn't their priority. However they cared a lot about her emotional instability so worked hard on her self regulation.

Been thinking about you today WeLoveCosta as you sound very stressed, so mainly wanted to send you (((hugs))) and support. Two other things to say though: you don't need to be the expert for this meeting tomorrow, or somehow diagnose your child with one thing or another. I would take it as a good thing that SOMETHING has been diagnosed, which should mean that action will be taken. You can ask them what practical actions they are proposing. You know your daughter, and will have a good idea of what is likely to work and what not, so be willing to steer them a bit on suggestions that you think may work well or less well knowing her as you do, but be prepared for them to try something different. The main thing I'd suggest that you want from this meeting is for them to see you as a partner who is keen to work with them to support your daughter. Oh, and ask for a follow up meeting ideally on a date that you agree tomorrow in a few weeks' time. know experience of medication, but on that front I wanted to say that again you don't have to make a decision straight away. There is no "right" answer to this, so don't feel pressured into making a quick decision (should medication be offered). Wishing you all the best. LB

Milly. You are right, there are different types of ADHD meds some quick release and some delayed release. They do dissipate quickly and don’t “build up”. The effect they have is not caused by an accumulation of a drug in the body, rather by the brain gradually adapting to being able to process thoughts, behaviours and impulses in this different environment with the drug controlling the chemical environment and the brain adapting to utilise it. It seems to take a little time initially for the brain to fully adjust to this on first use of the medication and the dosage seems to be just enough to maintain the balance so when it wears off the original impulses begin to reassert. The next pill reasserts the balance and the brain has already learned how to utilise this so regulation returns quickly.